"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht 
news:48b96322@news.povray.org...
> Human features aside, it is really quite a vexing challenge.  The steep
> curves and grooves of the acanthus shoots the poly count up with so
> little to show for it and the model gets heavy quickly.
>
> I thought also that it would be a lot of work but only a lot of work.  I
> didn't expect to have my ingenuity so thoroughly challenged with the
> complex curves in space, the balance of positive and negative space, and
> the interaction of natural and geometric elements.
>
> I think I will have to spit my efforts in two directions, one a very
> high-poly 'natural' version, breaking the features into separate files
> and perhaps even using POV looping to assemble the model at rendertime,
> and the other a low-poly, very stylized version.  My attempt to
> comprimise the two just doesn't seem to work.
>

Seeing this close-up, I am even more impressed, Jim! This is an excellent 
job indeed. I am quite sure that I would not have gone beyond the low-poly 
version myself... :-(

Thomas

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Stephen wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:11:00 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>My attempt to comprimise the two just doesn't seem to work.
> 
> 
> You are too hard on yourself, Jim. That looks very good. Of course a low poly
> version for distance shots is a good idea.

And as something that could be 'weathered'

Thankyou for the encouragement!  Perhaps there are elements here that 
are salvageable :)

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Thomas de Groot wrote:

> 
> Seeing this close-up, I am even more impressed, Jim! This is an excellent 
> job indeed. I am quite sure that I would not have gone beyond the low-poly 
> version myself... :-(
> 

Thanks for the encouragement which I seem to be in need of these days. 
There are some pretty impressive models out there though they have poly 
counts 3-5 times what mine is.  But it is really about observation of 
the subject and I have literally gone back to the drawing board to try 
and take this to the next level.

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On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:44:46 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:

>> You are too hard on yourself, Jim. That looks very good. Of course a low poly
>> version for distance shots is a good idea.
>
>And as something that could be 'weathered'
>

That's true, you don't want to weather something with so much fine detail. Like
putting ketchup on a filet steak. Oops! I forgot where you live :)

>Thankyou for the encouragement!  Perhaps there are elements here that 
>are salvageable :)

Aunt Aida! I'd be more than happy with what you've done already. I think that
they would look great a part of the back/midground of your bistro. In fact I can
see (in my minds eye) the tearoom at the museums of Heraklion or Phaistos. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:

 > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:44:46 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> 
wrote:
 >
 >
 >>> You are too hard on yourself, Jim. That looks very good. Of course 
a low poly
 >>> version for distance shots is a good idea.
 >>
 >>
 >> And as something that could be 'weathered'
 >>
 >
 >
 > That's true, you don't want to weather something with so much fine 
detail. Like
 > putting ketchup on a filet steak. Oops! I forgot where you live :)
 >

LOL, but I'm Canadian. Couldn't save the children though.  Of course my 
parents put worcestershire sauce on every damned thing: eggs, steak, 
doesn't matter.

 >
 >> Thankyou for the encouragement!  Perhaps there are elements here 
that are salvageable :)
 >
 >
 >
 > Aunt Aida! I'd be more than happy with what you've done already. I 
think that
 > they would look great a part of the back/midground of your bistro. In 
fact I can
 > see (in my minds eye) the tearoom at the museums of Heraklion or 
Phaistos.


It's mostly the acanthus that I am unhappy with.

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On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:25:35 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:

>Like putting ketchup on a filet steak. Oops! I forgot where you live :)
> >
>
>LOL, but I'm Canadian. Couldn't save the children though.  Of course my 
>parents put worcestershire sauce on every damned thing: eggs, steak, 
>doesn't matter.

I know, you know :) That's why I said "where you live", you know :)

>
>
>It's mostly the acanthus that I am unhappy with.

Uncle Stevie says that you are too close to the problem. The fiddly bits look
almost perfect to me (at least from the image you posted). It might show what
you mean if you posted a larger image with a coloured background. What I see is
a very detailed capital with good acanthus leaves and scrolls that are not too
sharp. I'd leave it as it is and not get hung up on perfecting it.
BTW what is the rendering time?
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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> BTW what is the rendering time?
This image with +a0.01, no texture, one light, and preloaded radiosity 
data took 15 min
This same image with no aa took 4 minutes.

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Attachments:
Download 'ruins.163a.jpg' (41 KB)

Preview of image 'ruins.163a.jpg'

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:28:17 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:

>
>> BTW what is the rendering time?
>This image with +a0.01, no texture, one light, and preloaded radiosity 
>data took 15 min
>This same image with no aa took 4 minutes.

That's quite reasonable times IMO.
I see where you're coming from when there are no normals but you do have normals
in the texture and that makes it more than acceptable in my eyes. But then I'm a
slacker when it comes to doing things properly. If it looks ok then it will do,
for me.
Maybe that is why I go for surrealism instead of photorealism :)
One of these days I'll get placed in a contest that someone else enters :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Jim Charter wrote:
> The model of a corinthian capital is still in progress and not yet ready 
> to stand a closeup look, but it took a lot to even get to a first stage 
> of completeness.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

I saw the CG Choice Gallery at forums.cgsociety.org the other day. 
Apparently the images in the "Choice" gallery are placed there by 

of the (IMO) less consistent outdoor environmental work had been 
included in the gallery alongside the often jaw-dropping character work 
seen there. Apparently, outdoor environmental work is in some ways even 
tougher than character modeling. I've never tried character modeling, 
but this would not have been my guess.

Your columns are an accomplishment on their own. Is your completed image 
intended to be a closeup "study"? I am looking forward to seeing the 
final result of so much ambition.

  -Shay

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Shay wrote:

> 
> I saw the CG Choice Gallery at forums.cgsociety.org the other day. 
> Apparently the images in the "Choice" gallery are placed there by 

> of the (IMO) less consistent outdoor environmental work had been 
> included in the gallery alongside the often jaw-dropping character work 
> seen there. Apparently, outdoor environmental work is in some ways even 
> tougher than character modeling. I've never tried character modeling, 
> but this would not have been my guess.

Yes I began my journey with mesh modelling with the intention of finding 
a way to get the organic, character results, you mention, that were just 
not possible with mathematical primitives.  With that goal never really 
accomplished it has evolved into an interest in inanimate subjects, such 
as a decoratively designed shoe, with complex, quasi-organic, surfaces 
(that are also difficult to achieve with mathematical primatives,) but 
then finally into an interest in objects complex in detail and in 
positive/negative space, such as the corinthian capital, or an ornate 
chalice, where the attraction is hand-modelling the complexity even 
though it could also be done with csg. Meanwhile, environmental work , 
while the mainstay of many in the POV community, has always been the 
least of my interests if not a complete burden.  But little by little I 
am edging towards it as an expressive end.

> 
> Your columns are an accomplishment on their own. Is your completed image 
> intended to be a closeup "study"? 

I had hoped to put them in an environment, the real interest was in the 
'ruins' aspect of it.  Vaguely I had hoped to exploit some of Jaime's 
systems to provide environments initially.


I am looking forward to seeing the
> final result of so much ambition.
> 

Thanks for the encouragement, I would very much like to push through to 
a result.

-Jim

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