Reloaded had some awesome action scenes that I like a lot. I only saw 
Revolutions once, but I don't remember much that I like from it (I'm sure 
some of the action scenes were good).

However, the first movie had some things that were really lacking from the 
other two: a cast of really likable characters (the new pilot guy sucked 
compared to the original, the real-world bad guy was straight out of a 
saturday morning cartoon, and that kid who drooled over Neo was just 
obnoxious), stunning revelations about the story and the universe, and 
*reasons* for the fights. (The entire "burly brawl" scene, for example, has 
no point - Neo just leaves in the end. Also the fight with the guy who 
brings him to the Oracle is poorly justified.) Oh, and the possibility that 
Neo could lose a fight or not be the one, driven home by the death of other 
characters (that you actually cared about).

Is it fair to mention that the first had revolutionary special effects, and 
the other two didn't bring that much to the table? The "burly brawl" scene 
in particular had very fake looking CG people.

Reloaded was also confusing (much more than the first, to the point where I 
still can't figure some of it out), lacking in the simplicity of the first 
one. Plus it had some really cheesy moments like the sex/dance scene, 
anything involving that annoying kid, and the predictable cliffhanger 
ending.

Revelations was again lacking in simplicity, trying to add too many elements 
to the world; for instance, the train station at the beginning was just 
weird and didn't seem to link to the rest of the movie. Again, I remember 
the ending being *painfully* cheesy.

I liked some parts of each, but as a whole neither of them were thoroughly 
enjoyable like the original.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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"Slime" <fak### [at] emailaddress> wrote:
> Is it fair to mention that the first had revolutionary special effects, and
> the other two didn't bring that much to the table? The "burly brawl" scene
> in particular had very fake looking CG people.

What impressed me most about that scene was the choreography. Sure, the CGI
looked a little fake in a couple of shots, but the overall effect was
incredible. You can watch Neo wallop a Smith into the distance, watch that
Smith get up, dust himself down, and make his way back into the fray for
another wallop. And they're *all* doing that, over and over! Probably works
better as a music video than a movie scene tho.

> Reloaded was also confusing (much more than the first, to the point where I
> still can't figure some of it out)

I lost a lot of respect for Reloaded when they very obviously offloaded a huge
sub-plot to another production (the video game, I believe).

> I liked some parts of each, but as a whole neither of them were thoroughly
> enjoyable like the original.

Agreed...

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Slime wrote:
> Reloaded had some awesome action scenes that I like a lot. I only saw 
> Revolutions once, but I don't remember much that I like from it (I'm sure 
> some of the action scenes were good).
> 
> However, the first movie had some things that were really lacking from the 
> other two: a cast of really likable characters (the new pilot guy sucked 
> compared to the original, the real-world bad guy was straight out of a 
> saturday morning cartoon, and that kid who drooled over Neo was just 
> obnoxious), stunning revelations about the story and the universe, and 
> *reasons* for the fights. (The entire "burly brawl" scene, for example, has 
> no point - Neo just leaves in the end. Also the fight with the guy who 
> brings him to the Oracle is poorly justified.) Oh, and the possibility that 
> Neo could lose a fight or not be the one, driven home by the death of other 
> characters (that you actually cared about).
> 
> Is it fair to mention that the first had revolutionary special effects, and 
> the other two didn't bring that much to the table? The "burly brawl" scene 
> in particular had very fake looking CG people.
> 
> Reloaded was also confusing (much more than the first, to the point where I 
> still can't figure some of it out), lacking in the simplicity of the first 
> one. Plus it had some really cheesy moments like the sex/dance scene, 
> anything involving that annoying kid, and the predictable cliffhanger 
> ending.
> 
> Revelations was again lacking in simplicity, trying to add too many elements 
> to the world; for instance, the train station at the beginning was just 
> weird and didn't seem to link to the rest of the movie. Again, I remember 
> the ending being *painfully* cheesy.
> 
> I liked some parts of each, but as a whole neither of them were thoroughly 
> enjoyable like the original.

I basically agree with almost everything you just said. (But you said it 
way better than me.) The actual fight scenes are even more impressive 
than the original - it's just that there didn't seem to be any *point* 
to them. I watched the whole of the second movie, and at the end I'm 
like, "so what do I know now that I didn't know before?" Nothing, 
really. And yeah, the pilot and the various other characters were boring.

It's ironic really. I thought I'd find the first movie really boring - 
but I didn't. I thought I'd really enjoy the sequals - but I didn't. 
Funny old world, eh?

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>> Is it fair to mention that the first had revolutionary special effects, and
>> the other two didn't bring that much to the table? The "burly brawl" scene
>> in particular had very fake looking CG people.
> 
> What impressed me most about that scene was the choreography. Sure, the CGI
> looked a little fake in a couple of shots, but the overall effect was
> incredible. You can watch Neo wallop a Smith into the distance, watch that
> Smith get up, dust himself down, and make his way back into the fray for
> another wallop. And they're *all* doing that, over and over! Probably works
> better as a music video than a movie scene tho.

Heh. Every time I watch it, I can't help noticing that there's, like, 
200 Smiths, but only 3 of them are actually trying to attack him at any 
one moment. The rest of them are all standing there "winding up" to do 
something. They got it so that it doesn't look like anybody is standing 
around waiting, but in reality they all are. Only a tiny number of them 
are actually attacking at any moment.

I guess it's like the battle scenes in the new Star Wars films. They're 
so absurdly over the top that you just loose interest. I think for SciFi 
to work well, there has to be an implicit set of "rules". If you have a 
universe where absolutely *anything* is possible, there's not much 
causality. The best films you always know what the characters can and 
can't do - and hence you know when they do or don't have a problem, and 
when they've overcome it. But give a character unlimited power and you 
now have a rather uninteresting situation. He has unlimited power. Of 
*course* he's going to win.

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Is it fair to mention that the first had revolutionary special effects, and
> >> the other two didn't bring that much to the table? The "burly brawl" scene
> >> in particular had very fake looking CG people.
> >
> > What impressed me most about that scene was the choreography. Sure, the CGI
> > looked a little fake in a couple of shots, but the overall effect was
> > incredible. You can watch Neo wallop a Smith into the distance, watch that
> > Smith get up, dust himself down, and make his way back into the fray for
> > another wallop. And they're *all* doing that, over and over! Probably works
> > better as a music video than a movie scene tho.
>
> Heh. Every time I watch it, I can't help noticing that there's, like,
> 200 Smiths, but only 3 of them are actually trying to attack him at any
> one moment. The rest of them are all standing there "winding up" to do
> something. They got it so that it doesn't look like anybody is standing
> around waiting, but in reality they all are. Only a tiny number of them
> are actually attacking at any moment.

True, but it's actually quite tricky for more than about 6 people to attack one
individual - they just run out of space. Made all the more difficult by how
slippery an opponent Neo is at this point. They should have all jumped on him
at once right away - it was pretty obvious they were no match for him.

But I like the way the fight is ramped up, it starts out fairly small groups, as
you say, but the last 20-30 seconds are *really* hectic. And that final
Smith-bomb slo-mo is pure eye-candy.

Pointless fight though, has to be said :)

Post a reply to this message

>> Heh. Every time I watch it, I can't help noticing that there's, like,
>> 200 Smiths, but only 3 of them are actually trying to attack him at any
>> one moment. The rest of them are all standing there "winding up" to do
>> something. They got it so that it doesn't look like anybody is standing
>> around waiting, but in reality they all are. Only a tiny number of them
>> are actually attacking at any moment.
> 
> True, but it's actually quite tricky for more than about 6 people to attack one
> individual - they just run out of space.

You get the impression there could be more than 3 though. (Think about 
the scene from the first film where the cops rush in and club Morpheous.)

> They should have all jumped on him
> at once right away - it was pretty obvious they were no match for him.

Yes, that would make far mor sense...

> But I like the way the fight is ramped up, it starts out fairly small groups, as
> you say, but the last 20-30 seconds are *really* hectic. And that final
> Smith-bomb slo-mo is pure eye-candy.

Eye-candy is about all there is to it, really. Badly-drawn eye-candy, 
mostly.

> Pointless fight though, has to be said :)

Hey, I'm bored now. I'm just going to fly away. Never mind that I could 
have done that 10 minutes ago...

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > True, but it's actually quite tricky for more than about 6 people to attack
> > one individual - they just run out of space.
> You get the impression there could be more than 3 though. (Think about
> the scene from the first film where the cops rush in and club Morpheous.)

I'm sure I remember seeing up to 6 or 7 at a time near the start of the fight...
ohwell, not seen it for a while.

> Eye-candy is about all there is to it, really. Badly-drawn eye-candy,
> mostly.

Ah, I don't think it's that bad. It doesn't always look completely real, but I
still think it looks good. And there's always the retcon that it's not *meant*
to be real, since it's in the Matrix... ;-)

> > Pointless fight though, has to be said :)
> Hey, I'm bored now. I'm just going to fly away. Never mind that I could
> have done that 10 minutes ago...

Just what I thought when I first saw it... that's probably why they felt it
necessary to separate him from the action during the freeway chase. Would have
been all over pretty quickly otherwise!

Reminds me of something I read about T2 - apparently they got quite a long way
through writing the script before they realised that nobody could think of a
credible way of actually killing off the T-1000...!

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Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I lost a lot of respect for Reloaded when they very obviously offloaded a huge
> sub-plot to another production (the video game, I believe).

  They had the idea that the story would be divided into three movies,
a series of anime shorts and a videogame, and that all of these would
be part of the whole. Also the universe didn't die with the end of the
third movie, but continued in the online game.

  A somewhat interesting and theoretically innovative idea, but even
I have to admit that in the end it mostly failed (not the least because
the videogame was rushed because of time constraints and consequently
was not of the highest quality and was widely panned by critics). Rather
than the different parts in different media forming a whole, it feels
more like the story being shattered into pieces.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > Pointless fight though, has to be said :)

> Hey, I'm bored now. I'm just going to fly away. Never mind that I could 
> have done that 10 minutes ago...

  Maybe it was a question of pride? Maybe Neo didn't want to lose to Smith
and run like a coward? When Smith (well, Smiths) overpowered him he had to
swallow is pride and flee. So in the end he lost the fight, and he was not
all that happy about the fact.

  After all, you have to remember that Neo had clearly grown up to be rather
cocky. He was "invincible" and even the agents couldn't do anything to him.
The cockiness shows in the beginning of the movie, when the agents attack
him. Suddenly losing to someone like Smith (who he had defeated years ago
so easily) was probably something he was not expecting.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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I don't hate the sequels, though I liked them better at first then I do now.

Some movies are the opposite, where I like them more as time goes on. 
Unfortunately, that's not the case for the Matrix sequels.

-- 
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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