"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> news:web.4655753e2b96b31b3e3af320@news.povray.org...
> >>
> > If the stripes are getting wider due to the material stretching you might
> > get unpredictable results.
>
> That is what happens in fact, as the mesh is stretched, thus stretching the
> map.

I thought that it looked like stretching. You will need to tweak the cloth
parameters. What does a square centimeter of cotton weigh?

> > Also in RL pantaloons have inserts and darts to give them the ballooned
> > shape. That would make stripes an unsuitable design unless you don't mind
> > a
> > break in the pattern.
>
> There are breaks anyway along the seams (which you don't really see in this
> particular image). In accordance with RL, I provided vertical seams along
> the front and back, and along the inner and outer sides, thus making four
> panels, that were then rotated and oriented as well as possible according to
> the stripe pattern. Inserts and darts would be difficult to simulate/model I
> believe.

Hmm, impressive! It is little things like that, that add to the look.
Thinking about it. It might not be too difficult using subdivision for

for someone else to do :-)

>
> Oh God! Dear old Rupert! Long time no see!!
> His trousers would also show stretching, but maybe less visible? I shall
> experiment.
>
Sad when you model things from your childhood.

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.465582862b96b31b3e3af320@news.povray.org...
>>
>> That is what happens in fact, as the mesh is stretched, thus stretching 
>> the
>> map.
>
> I thought that it looked like stretching. You will need to tweak the cloth
> parameters. What does a square centimeter of cotton weigh?

What I mean is something different. The stretching does not happen in the 
Cloth Room during the simulation, it is already there in the basic mesh 
where the width of the faces at the bulges is wider than at the waist or at 
the ankles. Now, this is a thought indeed. Maybe, if I could model the 
pantaloon in such a way that more faces were produced at the bulges than at 
waist or ankles.... Hmm... I'm not sure...
>

>> There are breaks anyway along the seams (which you don't really see in 
>> this
>> particular image). In accordance with RL, I provided vertical seams along
>> the front and back, and along the inner and outer sides, thus making four
>> panels, that were then rotated and oriented as well as possible according 
>> to
>> the stripe pattern. Inserts and darts would be difficult to 
>> simulate/model I
>> believe.
>
> Hmm, impressive! It is little things like that, that add to the look.
> Thinking about it. It might not be too difficult using subdivision for
> inserts and deleting lines and joining points for darts. But I'll leave it
> for someone else to do :-)

It is knowledge of tayloring that is beginning to be needed in the first 
place!

>>
>> Oh God! Dear old Rupert! Long time no see!!
>> His trousers would also show stretching, but maybe less visible? I shall
>> experiment.
>>
> Sad when you model things from your childhood.

<grin> As yet, I don't feel at all alzheimerish  :-)

Thomas

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46557ef32b96b31b3e3af320@news.povray.org...
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>
>> He He!! Expert? Who knows? Anyway, I want to explore these avenues 
>> because
>> of the complex stories I have in mind. And it is worthwhile to know
>> 'everything' about the programs you are using, isn't it?  :-)
>
> You had better become one, because I've made myself sick of Poser clothes
> for a while. My current project doesn't need any because the world's
> population is naked :-)

Now, that is the easy way out!  :-)

> Maybe Janet might do the girlie thing, I bet she is a dab hand with the
> pinking shears :-)

I am really curious to see that!

>
>> I have to make the step between conforming and dynamic clothes yet. So I
>> guess I first have to export one, edit it in Silo (or Wings), and import 
>> it
>> again as dynamic clothing. Looks like an interesting experiment.
>
> Careful, I did that at first and Poser made end caps that had to be 
> removed.
> For skirts the bottom end cap was located half way up the body. Giving the
> OBJ an inside hem which I found very time consuming to delete. Without
> retesting I think that it is better to convert the conforming clothes to
> cloth in the Clothes Room. There are some restraints, I think that you
> might need to convert body parts separately. I think that I'm loosing my
> short term memory it was only a month or two ago :-)
>
Hm.. Have to be careful. See what I can do.

>> Yes indeed. I forgot that possibility to switch of the skin under the
>> conforming clothes. That would solve the problem indeed.
>>
> Or remove it in a modeler.

Oh, yes, of course. Good idea.

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> > You had better become one, because I've made myself sick of Poser clothes
> > for a while. My current project doesn't need any because the world's
> > population is naked :-)
>
> Now, that is the easy way out!  :-)


principles, and it is all done in the best possible taste. :-)

> > Maybe Janet might do the girlie thing, I bet she is a dab hand with the
> > pinking shears :-)
>
> I am really curious to see that!



> >
> >> I have to make the step between conforming and dynamic clothes yet. So I
> >> guess I first have to export one, edit it in Silo (or Wings), and import
> >> it
> >> again as dynamic clothing. Looks like an interesting experiment.
> >
> > Careful, I did that at first and Poser made end caps that had to be
> > removed.
> > For skirts the bottom end cap was located half way up the body. Giving the
> > OBJ an inside hem which I found very time consuming to delete. Without
> > retesting I think that it is better to convert the conforming clothes to
> > cloth in the Clothes Room. There are some restraints, I think that you
> > might need to convert body parts separately. I think that I'm loosing my
> > short term memory it was only a month or two ago :-)
> >
> Hm.. Have to be careful. See what I can do.

I made things more difficult for myself than I needed to.

> >> Yes indeed. I forgot that possibility to switch of the skin under the
> >> conforming clothes. That would solve the problem indeed.
> >>
> > Or remove it in a modeler.
>
> Oh, yes, of course. Good idea.
>

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> "Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht
> news:web.465582862b96b31b3e3af320@news.povray.org...
> >>
> >> That is what happens in fact, as the mesh is stretched, thus stretching
> >> the
> >> map.
> >
> > I thought that it looked like stretching. You will need to tweak the cloth
> > parameters. What does a square centimeter of cotton weigh?
>
> What I mean is something different. The stretching does not happen in the
> Cloth Room during the simulation, it is already there in the basic mesh
> where the width of the faces at the bulges is wider than at the waist or at
> the ankles.

I see, my misunderstanding.

[snip]

> It is knowledge of tayloring that is beginning to be needed in the first
> place!


section to the inside seam of rectangular sections and draw in the hem.

> >>
> >> Oh God! Dear old Rupert! Long time no see!!
> >> His trousers would also show stretching, but maybe less visible? I shall
> >> experiment.
> >>
> > Sad when you model things from your childhood.
>
> <grin> As yet, I don't feel at all alzheimerish  :-)

<g>

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I used to have pinking shears, a long time ago. :)

If the pants are seamed as real pants are, you can try to create the UV map
as 4 pieces and also minimize any deformation of the mesh when its
flattened out to the UV map. Thinking of it as pants pieces you will sew
together is a good way of approaching it. I know I am a Blender fan, but,
really, Blender has some great UV mapping options.

As for skin poking through, I know Poser magnets can be used to pull the
clothing out a bit. But, I never quite got the hang of those magnets.
Eliminating the body part is fast and easy, if its that simple. But
sometimes its not.
Poser 7 has a morphing tool you could use to get rid of "poke through", and
also modify the figure, check out:
http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13544
You can also do this sort of thing in a 3D modeller. Ha, ha like Blender! :)

Cheers, Janet

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.465594df2b96b31c4e49fa40@news.povray.org...
>
>> It is knowledge of tayloring that is beginning to be needed in the first
>> place!
>
> From my memory of the 70's flares; Stitch (insert and join) a triangular
> section to the inside seam of rectangular sections and draw in the hem.
>

Yes, but will a modeller with uv mapping give the same result?

There is a work around that I have just started testing and which might be 
the answer. I am adding vertical seams through those parts that widen 
towards the bulges, from the top and from the bottom. This way, the cloth 
panels are flattened out much more with less distortion as a result. Look at 
the two highlighted panels to the left on the attached image, to see what I 
have started to do in the ankle area.

Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'SiloScreenShot.jpg' (313 KB)

Preview of image 'SiloScreenShot.jpg'

"Janet" <par### [at] attnet> schreef in bericht 
news:web.46565b6a2b96b31f07d58b80@news.povray.org...
>I used to have pinking shears, a long time ago. :)
>
> If the pants are seamed as real pants are, you can try to create the UV 
> map
> as 4 pieces and also minimize any deformation of the mesh when its
> flattened out to the UV map. Thinking of it as pants pieces you will sew
> together is a good way of approaching it. I know I am a Blender fan, but,
> really, Blender has some great UV mapping options.

Well, what do you think of Silo (see the screenshot in my answer to Stephen, 
above)?  :-)
However, I think that the RL approach and the modelling approach are 
necessarily different. What no modeller like Wings or Silo can do (correct 
me if Blender is different from this) is to deform a mesh, keeping the same 
net surface area. You always scale the mesh one way or another by bending, 
translating, or rotating vertexes, edges or whole surfaces. In RL this only 
happens with really stretch-prone materials like spandex.

>
> As for skin poking through, I know Poser magnets can be used to pull the
> clothing out a bit. But, I never quite got the hang of those magnets.
> Eliminating the body part is fast and easy, if its that simple. But
> sometimes its not.

Ah yes, magnets. Still have to learn to use those. Thanks for reminding me 
Janet!

> Poser 7 has a morphing tool you could use to get rid of "poke through", 
> and
> also modify the figure, check out:
> http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13544

Another tool I have yet to learn to use!!


> You can also do this sort of thing in a 3D modeller. Ha, ha like Blender! 
> :)

You really like to rub in the salt, don't you?  :-)

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:

> Yes, but will a modeller with uv mapping give the same result?



> There is a work around that I have just started testing and which might be
> the answer. I am adding vertical seams through those parts that widen
> towards the bulges, from the top and from the bottom. This way, the cloth
> panels are flattened out much more with less distortion as a result. Look at
> the two highlighted panels to the left on the attached image, to see what I
> have started to do in the ankle area.


an old copy of UV Mapper somewhere.

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"Janet" <par### [at] attnet> wrote:
> I used to have pinking shears, a long time ago. :)




> As for skin poking through, I know Poser magnets can be used to pull the
> clothing out a bit. But, I never quite got the hang of those magnets.
> Eliminating the body part is fast and easy, if its that simple. But
> sometimes its not.
> Poser 7 has a morphing tool you could use to get rid of "poke through", and
> also modify the figure, check out:
> http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13544
> You can also do this sort of thing in a 3D modeller. Ha, ha like Blender! :)

There is a lot in Poser if you can get it to work.

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