On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:25:00 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3teledk> wrote:


>I meant the womans attempt at keeping balance looks a bit overdriven. It's
>due to the way she wave her hands. Of course I should have written this,
>instead of an ambigious statement.

Yes the woman's attempt at keeping balance is a bit overdriven. I think she is
having difficulty. 

>The way I understand this, you have manually transferred real world motion
>captures to a Poser model of your choice? Well, it worked, but I can't judge
>the technical merit when I don't know much about Poser.

Poser imports the BVH file and applies the movement automatically. I had to tidy
up the feet movement as the original model used a treadmill and the X and Z axis
motion added later. Doing this several times was a pain.



Regards
        Stephen

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>>The movements may be a bit overdriven

I dont think they are overdriven I just think it was done using the Poser
"Vodka" Plugin

;)

I like it.. very convincing.

Dont think you should give up on it I personally would like to see a 30fps
version.

Dave.

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Not bad. I'd say the problem with the animation is that
there's need to interpolate the keyframes, and the media
below requires some more samples/intervals.
Aside of that, I can only say that the hair movement is
clearly visible, but the breast movement isn't. Perhaps
this is due to the low resolution of the animation.

Some rather realistic setup (not that radioactive fog :-)
along with some nice lights might have made a better
animation. When viewing scenes like this, I always
ask myself why certain elements are in the scene. Its
much like viewing Matrix Reloaded and asking yourself
why Neo doesn't fly off right away...

-- 
Tim Nikias v2.0
Homepage: http://www.digitaltwilight.de/no_lights
Email: Tim### [at] gmxde

> I've decided to post this even though it is not finished and if my
feelings at
> the present are anything to go by it will never get finished:-{
> I started the work in poser in February this year using BHV motion files
to
> generate meshes, and it's been a pain (RSI).
> Anyway credits:
> The Poser model and the system to calculate the hair and breast movement
is from
> Masa's Poser ++ site. http://www.eurus.dti.ne.jp/~masasi/index.html
> I know the hair is wrong but I used extreme settings and I can't be
bothered to
> redo it :-{
> The media is modified from one submitted to Moray by Tim Cook.
> The bad taste and poor modelling is mine.
>
> Regards
>         Stephen

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:18:55 +0200, "Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim### [at] gmxde> wrote:

>Not bad. I'd say the problem with the animation is that
>there's need to interpolate the keyframes, 

The keyframes are the problem. Every frame is a keyframe due to the nature of
the BVH file. That's why I got sick of it. 


>and the media
>below requires some more samples/intervals.

Thanks I've just started to work with Media.

>Aside of that, I can only say that the hair movement is
>clearly visible, but the breast movement isn't. Perhaps
>this is due to the low resolution of the animation.

The Hair movement is too extreme, it grows and shrinks a lot. I hid most of it
with the camera position. The breast movement is hidden by the costume. I did
not want to post a scene with full frontal nudity in case it offended. 

>Some rather realistic setup (not that radioactive fog :-)
>along with some nice lights might have made a better
>animation. 

Point taken. I was going to use your LSSM in the scene but I could not get the
effect I wanted. I'll get back to you on that later if I can't work it out
myself.
 
>When viewing scenes like this, I always
>ask myself why certain elements are in the scene. Its
>much like viewing Matrix Reloaded and asking yourself
>why Neo doesn't fly off right away...

Duh! I read SF it but never watch it. Maybe an example from classical theatre
:-}

Regards
        Stephen

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> The keyframes are the problem. Every frame is a keyframe
> due to the nature of the BVH file. That's why I got sick of it.

Just curious: Does this mean the triangle faces are connected in different
patterns, for each frame? Otherwise they are compatible, and interpolation
is possible. I've done this recently with a simple POV script. So I'd like
to know, why you say they are all keyframes? I realize they all contain
valuable information about the character, but you probably can - at least-
bump up the framerate to 30 by interpolation without problems, just as long
as the mesh is still the same.

Regards,
Hugo

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:53:36 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3teledk> wrote:

>> The keyframes are the problem. Every frame is a keyframe
>> due to the nature of the BVH file. That's why I got sick of it.
>
>Just curious: Does this mean the triangle faces are connected in different
>patterns, for each frame? Otherwise they are compatible, and interpolation
>is possible. I've done this recently with a simple POV script. So I'd like
>to know, why you say they are all keyframes? I realize they all contain
>valuable information about the character, but you probably can - at least-
>bump up the framerate to 30 by interpolation without problems, just as long
>as the mesh is still the same.
>
Looking at the exported obj file it seems that there is the same number of
triangles but their orientation is different. The connection of their patterns
should be the same but I can't say for sure. The inc file is about 200000 lines
long for the model of the woman. 
I say they are all keyframes because in Poser there is no interpolation between
the imported BVH frames. The position and orientation of each part e.g. Right
upper arm is defined by the BVH file for each frame. If I wanted to increase the
frame rate then Poser would interpolate for me.
I posted this animation at 15fps to cut down on size and render time. I need to
use 15fps for the PAE system that calculates the hair and breast movement. If I
were not utterly sick of this animation I would use 30 fps.
Over the weekend I will do a new one using a different motion at 30 fps.
I hope  have answered your query in an understandable way but I'm no expert.   

Regards
        Stephen

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> Looking at the exported obj file it seems that there is the same number of
> triangles but their orientation is different. The connection of their
patterns
> should be the same but I can't say for sure.

I would be surprised if they aren't the same, because you're skewing the
same character. It's possible that Poser tries to smooth out some joints
after you have applied the BVH motion, thereby making interpolation
troubleful.

Have you seen:
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/31438/

I must say, that even if it works and POV-Ray can interpolate the data,
you'll need a few hours of manual work to prepare the files to be read by
the macro I've written in POV-Ray. It's easy, but takes some time because
you have so many keyframes. At the moment, there are unfortunately no way
for POV-Ray macros to work directly on data encapsulated in a mesh2 file.

Regards,
Hugo

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:41:03 +0200, "Hugo Asm" <hua### [at] post3teledk> wrote:


>Have you seen:
>http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/31438/

I have now:-} I tried blender and did not like it. I've never gotten into making
my own meshes, not enough hours in the week :-{ Kitsune_e 's animation is cute.

>I must say, that even if it works and POV-Ray can interpolate the data,
>you'll need a few hours of manual work to prepare the files to be read by
>the macro I've written in POV-Ray. It's easy, but takes some time because
>you have so many keyframes. At the moment, there are unfortunately no way
>for POV-Ray macros to work directly on data encapsulated in a mesh2 file.

IIt sounds interesting maybe useful for other projects. I've found a workaround
for having to convert to 15 fps then back to 30 fps so I'll stick to what works
for me just now. One of the problems with Povray projects is that I keep having
to learn new programmes and techniques. No problem with that but it's so
distracting and time consuming going off at tangents. (Must get back to Fractint
someday, I only "looked" at Povray so I could draw fractal landscapes Ha! This
programme should have a health warning - Can become addictive)
 
Regards
        Stephen

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*Grin*

very nice work

Im not sure what is involved with this type of thing but the end product is
very good.

Keep up the good work ;)

Dave


<mca### [at] aolcom (S McAvoy)> wrote in message
news:3eecba3b.76149817@news.povray.org...
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:30:15 +0100, "Davey B"
<kryten@*remove*totalise.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > >>The movements may be a bit overdriven
> >
> >I dont think they are overdriven I just think it was done using the Poser
> >"Vodka" Plugin
> >
> Herb vodka maybe :-}
> >
> >I like it.. very convincing.
> >
> >Dont think you should give up on it I personally would like to see a
30fps
> >version.
> >
>
> You don't know what your asking. I spent months on and off just getting
the feet
> right. That would be fine if I wanted to be a Poser 4 addict :-} So here's
> another BVH derived one that I did over the weekend at 30 fps.
>
>
> Regards
>         Stephen
>
>

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I'm glad you like it but the process is very mechanical.
Create an animated figure in Poser the export the series of meshes. Convert the
meshes to, in my case, UDO's so I can build a supporting scene in Moray. Export
to Povray then tweak the Povray code to use a different mesh for each frame. The
textures of the model come from Poser.
Now that I've worked out the technique I find the application limited due to 
A)	the unvarying motion of BVH files. I mean they are difficult to modify
and you are stuck with what you can find on the web.
B)	my poor Poser expertise. 

I think it has been a worthwhile  project but its time to do something
different.

Onwards, outwards and upwards!	Space-cadet. 

Regards
        Stephen

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