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> > I think you are missing the point here. There is nothing about the mesh2
> > feature that restricts it to any one platform.
>
> I probably am missing the point, as I'm not a programmer.
> So Mesh2 would have been included even if there were no converters on the
PC-platform
> either?
Mesh2 is nothing more or less than another way of defining a triangle
mesh IIRC. This means that converters have not a lot to nothing to do
with its presence in POV 3.5b1
> > If I were to email you a file
> > with the mesh2 syntax it would render exactly the same on your machine as
> > it does on my Windows machine.
>
> Yes, I understand. What I'm commenting is that I must get a Windows machine like
yours
> to be able to use it, and that it would save a bit of frustration if that fact were
> included in the documentation.
I think there's a bit of confusion over what you mean by *use*. Ken
seems to take the point that to use it is to shove it into a scene and
render it. You seem to be taking 'use' to imply conversion to other
formats...
All of this is IMO, of course :)
Bye for now,
Jamie.
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In article <3B9B9FD8.AF9A4A6F@telia.com> , Tom Stone <tom### [at] telia com>
wrote:
> But this format have always been reserved for PC's since it was created,
> before it was included in 3.5.
There is nothing PC specific about it. If someone would just take the time
and write programs that can export to it on the Mac, there would be no
problem using it. Oh, and of course it is always possible to code a mesh by
hand ;-)
> Mac-specific things that I would like to see in the Mac version, like for
> example the ability to use TrueType fonts (if it is technically possible).
TrueType font has been improved a lot in 3.5. Try to use some of the fonts
you have installed. For example open ":scenes:objects:ttf1.pov" and change
the font used in there from "crystal.ttf" to "times.ttf" or just plain
"times". This should work at least with Mac OS 9 and later, but it may also
work with Mac OS 8.x but I didn't test it there. It will also most likely
not work with all Mac fonts, but at least with most of the default ones.
Of course, as the Mac docs haven't been written yet, you couldn't know about
this feature...
Basically the conversion of TrueType fonts with the simple utility that was
included with 3.1g.r2 has now been merged into the Mac specific backend code
(the same hooks that allow the Windows version to filter file/pathnames for
IO restrictions allow the Mac version i.e. to do these font tricks).
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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news:3B9BB755.EB425397@telia.com...
> Yes, I understand. What I'm commenting is that I must get a Windows
machine like yours
> to be able to use it, and that it would save a bit of frustration if that
fact were
> included in the documentation.
But if tomorrow someone writes a program to do that, the docs will be
wrong!!! Indeed, the following tow quotes from your message are
incompatible:
> What I'm asking for is some kind of acknowledgement that Mac users can't
use the Mesh2
> format. As it is now, it looks like all users can use these new wonderful
features.
> I guess that I could try to write my own converter.
because if you can write a program, it is not a plataform specific feature,
and then the documentation will be wrong stating it, isn't?
Jaime
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>
> > So Mesh2 would have been included even if there were no converters on the
PC-platform
> > either?
>
> Yes.
Thanks Ken. I didn't expect that answer, but if you say so :-)
> I would guess that no one has created a conversion program for the Mac
> yet because this is the first time that mesh2 has been offered in the
> offical version of POV-Ray. It takes a while for people out in the
> community to find out what is in the new version of the program and
> develop outside utilities for those features.
I hope that it will become like that.
If no mention of this will be included in the documentation, then perhaps it can be
made on
the mac.povray.org site?
Perhaps a list named "Call for developers" that contains a list of things that needs
to be
done, like a Mesh2 converter, something to generate heightfields with more than 256
levels
etc. etc.
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Jamie Davison wrote:
>
> Mesh2 is nothing more or less than another way of defining a triangle
> mesh IIRC. This means that converters have not a lot to nothing to do
> with its presence in POV 3.5b1
Yes, I was just informed by Ken about that. I though that the inclusion was partly to
the
sucess Gilles Tran and other PC users have had with the combination 3DWin and MegaPov.
Since no Mesh2 file have ever been produced on a Mac, I don't think that many Mac
users
have insisted much on its inclusion in the official release.
However, it seems like I was wrong.
>
> I think there's a bit of confusion over what you mean by *use*. Ken
> seems to take the point that to use it is to shove it into a scene and
> render it. You seem to be taking 'use' to imply conversion to other
> formats...
Sorry that I was unclear. English isn't my first language.
The only thing I mean with "use" is to be able to render a UV-mapped model in POV-Ray,
just
like Gilles Tran and others have been able to do for a long while. The documentation
seems
to imply that I can, when in fact, I can't.
(unless I write a converter myself or buy a PC)
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Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> But if tomorrow someone writes a program to do that, the docs will be
> wrong!!!
That is a rather small concern, isn't it? There's links to PC converters, and
all of them might move to new websites tomorrow, or just get tired of
programming and close down their sites.
>
> because if you can write a program, it is not a plataform specific feature,
> and then the documentation will be wrong stating it, isn't?
True. But I'm not very confident that I'm able to actually write one. I'm not a
programmer, and the only software I've created have been targeted to solve
rather unique needs unrelated to raytracing.
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> In all practical aspects, this feature seems platform specific. It would
have
> been nice to be able to use Poser figures, but hopefully there will be a
> solution for Mac users in version 4?
How can it be platform specific when the file format is a standard? As far
as I know Mesh 2 is simply another standard for writing triangle meshes. I'm
not very knowledgeable about this stuff but to me the reason for using such
a mesh standard is that it is in a raw text format, all operating systems
support the editing and viewing of text files. Now if there was direct
support for Posers .obj file, which I take is a binary format, that would be
more platform specific. Please let me know if my understanding is flawed.
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Hello Thorsten,
Just the person I wanted to hear from! :-)
I can't thank you enough for all your work with the Mac version!
If there is anything I can do for you to show you my gratitude, just let me
know.
> There is nothing PC specific about it. If someone would just take the time
> and write programs that can export to it on the Mac, there would be no
> problem using it.
Is there any chance of mentioning the need for a converter like this on the
mac.povray.org site? Hopefully, that will increase the odds that a developer
understand that there are a need for it.
As it is like now, one only finds out that no converters exist after several
hours of searching on Internet.
I could perhaps try myself, but as a non-programmer I'm not used to the
thinking required and I'm doubting that I would succeed without any
pseudo code to look at.
Perhaps one could get Joseph Strout to be interested to create a simple
converter as a tutorial for RealBasic?
He's the man behind modeller Meshwork, which exports to POV-ray
( http://codenautics.com/meshwork/ ), and since he became hired by
RealBasic, he has made several tutorial files that have used
POV-ray renderings ( http://www.strout.net/info/coding/rb/ ).
I guess that might increase the number of utilities for Mac users.
Especially now, as version 3.5 of RealBasic now have internal support
for 3D graphics.
> Oh, and of course it is always possible to code a mesh by
> hand ;-)
Oh, so you are also cutting and pasting between the formats?
Well, then I'm at least in good company! ;-)
>
> > Mac-specific things that I would like to see in the Mac version, like for
> > example the ability to use TrueType fonts (if it is technically possible).
>
> TrueType font has been improved a lot in 3.5. Try to use some of the fonts
> you have installed. For example open ":scenes:objects:ttf1.pov" and change
> the font used in there from "crystal.ttf" to "times.ttf" or just plain
> "times". This should work at least with Mac OS 9 and later, but it may also
> work with Mac OS 8.x but I didn't test it there. It will also most likely
> not work with all Mac fonts, but at least with most of the default ones.
WOW! That is really good news! Thank you!
I'll try this immediately to see if I understood you correctly.
(I know that I'm starting to be annoying now, but... any chance that
Type1 fonts will be supported in the future?
As most of the things I do on the computer is aimed for print, I'm not
using TrueType a lot.)
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Thomas Lake wrote:
> > In all practical aspects, this feature seems platform specific.
> How can it be platform specific when the file format is a standard?
From a programmers perspective, it might not be platform specific.
But as a user... things are different. That's why I wrote "in all practical
aspects".
And I'm not sure that it is fair to call it a "standard". No Mesh2 file have
ever been
produced on a Mac.
If you give me a yes or no answer on the question "can you use UV mapped
models?",
then I know which platform you're on.
> Now if there was direct
> support for Posers .obj file, which I take is a binary format, that would be
> more platform specific. Please let me know if my understanding is flawed.
As a non-programmer, it is more likely that it is my understanding that is
flawed.
But, I can create a .obj file on the Mac. Also Dxf, 3dmf and a lot of other
formats.
But I can't create a Mesh2 file.
Understand me right. I'm not complaining about the Mesh2 format.
Nor the lack of converters.
I'm just commenting that the documentation seems to imply that
I can use it, when several hours of searching on the Internet reveals
that I can't.
Isn't it a good thing to save people from that kind of frustration?
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> I'm just commenting that the documentation seems to imply that
> I can use it, when several hours of searching on the Internet reveals
> that I can't.
In 2 minutes of research I got this message from Joseph Strout:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meshwork/message/443
So, better than complaining here, I will be mailing Joshep to demonstrate
him that mesh2 actually works with UV mapping on POV 3.5, and surely you
will have support for it on the next version of Meshworks (which I see is
updated often).
> Isn't it a good thing to save people from that kind of frustration?
That's not the purpose of the docs, sorry. The will be too long if so...
:)
Jaime
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