In article <web.3e7a64b3528171f8d02c7b870@news.povray.org> , "Rohan Bernett"
<rox### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> If it's possible to do real-time raytracing, then why can't we do it with
> POVRay, hmm?

Who says you can't?

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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If you want to create your own CPU on silicon, then you should have a 
look at either VHDL or Verilog. This are languages used to design 
hardware. You can use Xilinx tools and FPGA technology to realise this.
There are loads of tutorials and on the web and books that teach how to 
design a CPU with either VHDL or Verilog. In fact, I think there is a 
guy that created a complete NES system with Verilog.

Have a look at http://www.xilinx.com

You are going to find all the information there about their tools and 
languages.

Since I was a kid I always wanted to create my own electronic devices.
So I started teaching myself electronics. I also took a course in 
Electronics and a degree in computer engineering, which covered all the 
electronics I needed to fulfil my dreams. Up until now I have designed 
an 8-bit CPU similar to the 6502 using VHDL and FPGA technology, a 
couple of alarm systems, music amplifiers, etc.... My next goal will be 
to design a hardware based raytracer. I don't really have the time now, 
but one day I will.

As for you project, I think it was a good idea to generate the stuff 
with povray.

All the best

Fidel.

Post a reply to this message

Rohan Bernett wrote:
> Andrew Coppin wrote:
> 
>>>The obvious next step:  port MAME to SDL.
>>
>>Port whatty?!?
>>
> 
> 
> MAME = Multi Arcade Machine Emulator
> 
> I haven't used it personally, but it's supposed to be really good. I've
> heard there are even ports of it for several consoles.
> 
> Well, here's something even loonier than making an emulator in SDL: Make a
> whole game in it. Just imagine Warcraft III or Duke3d with raytraced
> graphics! Drool drool drool! Pity, no current computer is fast enough to do
> it in real time.

SDL is not a 3D engine nor a drawing API. It is mostly used as an 
alternative to directx, but that works on several platforms.
To render 3D stuff, you need OpenGL. I don't know if the Windows version 
does support Direct3D as well, but the Mac version, which is the one I 
am using, only supports opengl because Direct3D is a Microsoft thing.

As for making the games, I don't quite understand what you are trying to 
say. There are loads of games written in SDL. But this are tile based 
games. For 3D games they use opengl for the rendering side of it and SDL 
is used for the sound, keyboard, joystick, system initialisation, etc...

There is a version of Tron which uses SDL and OpenGL. Just have a look 
around the web.

As for MAME it is implemented in SDL (at least the Mac version is).

As for the raytraced thing. There are loads of games that use real-time 
raytracing. Have a look on the web and you'll see.

All the best

Fidel.

Post a reply to this message

fidel viegas wrote:
> 
> 
> Rohan Bernett wrote:
> 
>> Andrew Coppin wrote:
>>
>>>> The obvious next step:  port MAME to SDL.
> 
> As for MAME it is implemented in SDL (at least the Mac version is).
> 
SDL as in "Scene Description Language" and not "Simple Device Layer" 
(right?).


/Nathan

> As for the raytraced thing. There are loads of games that use real-time 
> raytracing. Have a look on the web and you'll see.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Fidel.
>

Post a reply to this message

Nathan Letwory wrote:

> SDL as in "Scene Description Language" and not "Simple Device Layer" 
> (right?).

Oh, now I got confused. Were you guys talking about povray SDL or SDL 
(Simple DirectMedia Layer)?

If it was povray SDL, then what I have said doesn't apply.

All the best

Fidel

PS:There are so many SDL nomenclatures that I get confused.

Post a reply to this message

> Have a look at http://www.xilinx.com

Hey, cool. Thanks - will take a look.

> Since I was a kid I always wanted to create my own electronic devices.
> So I started teaching myself electronics. I also took a course in
> Electronics and a degree in computer engineering, which covered all the
> electronics I needed to fulfil my dreams. Up until now I have designed
> an 8-bit CPU similar to the 6502 using VHDL and FPGA technology, a
> couple of alarm systems, music amplifiers, etc.... My next goal will be
> to design a hardware based raytracer. I don't really have the time now,
> but one day I will.

Glad I'm not the only crazy person on this earth ;-)

> As for you project, I think it was a good idea to generate the stuff
> with povray.

Yeah, building hardware is fun, but software is way more convinient...
Especially for testing!

Post a reply to this message

Patrick Elliott wrote:

>Also, some people have even build arcade cabinets to hold their computers
>and monitors, then wired in the original arcade controls to them.

Yeah. I've seen photos of some impressive cabinents some people have built
in the HotBox section in Atomic. I don't think I could make one myself,
though.

>void main () {

>    call functional_code()
>  else
>    call crash_windows();
>}

Heh Heh Heh. I like it, I like it. :-) Seems quite appropriate to WinME,
judging by the trouble dad had with it until he got rid of the stupid
thing.

Rohan _e_ii

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Andrew Coppin wrote:
> Glad I'm not the only crazy person on this earth ;-)

I wouldn't say crazy because the CPU I did was an assignment for the 
advanced digital design module.

>>As for you project, I think it was a good idea to generate the stuff
>>with povray.
> 
> 
> Yeah, building hardware is fun, but software is way more convinient...
> Especially for testing!

With VHDL you write your hardware with software. Then there are two ways 
of writing programs in VHDL, one is for testing purposes, which works 
pretty much like your emulator written in c or c++, but it runs 
concurrently and it has got timers, etc... The other program you write 
is for the actual generation of the hardware. You create an interface, 
which tells how the your device is composed inside and then you write a 
behavioural model to test the funcionality of the circuit and once it is 
working to your satisfaction, then you write the architecture module 
which is where you connect all the circuitry. Once you compile it, your 
compiler will generate logic gates interconnected to generate your 
circuit. Then you just transfer that to an FPGA IC and that's it. you 
are done.

Anyway, keep up with your inventions. Have you got screenshots of your 
povray renderings?

All the best

Fidel.

Post a reply to this message

> > Glad I'm not the only crazy person on this earth ;-)
>
> I wouldn't say crazy because the CPU I did was an assignment for the
> advanced digital design module.

Ah... That would make more sense ;-)

> > Yeah, building hardware is fun, but software is way more convinient...
> > Especially for testing!
>
> With VHDL you write your hardware with software. Then there are two ways
> of writing programs in VHDL, one is for testing purposes, which works
> pretty much like your emulator written in c or c++, but it runs
> concurrently and it has got timers, etc...

Sounds really cool... I gotta check this out... (Oh yeah - I said that
yesterday too, didn't I? I'm a busy person sadly....)

> Once you compile it, your
> compiler will generate logic gates interconnected to generate your
> circuit. Then you just transfer that to an FPGA IC and that's it. you
> are done.

So you mean if I buy the right stuff I can actually have running silicon???

(Well, actually it's Germanium these days isn't it? Or is it? I have no idea
really...)

> Anyway, keep up with your inventions. Have you got screenshots of your
> povray renderings?

I do have images - they're not terribly exciting tho. Will post one in a
sec. Also note that I've got a (unfinished) logic diagram currently on
povray.binaries.images. (Took me hours - I think I'm doing it the hard way!
Will investigate easier methods ;-)

Thanks!
Andrew.

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Andrew Coppin wrote:
>>With VHDL you write your hardware with software. Then there are two ways
>>of writing programs in VHDL, one is for testing purposes, which works
>>pretty much like your emulator written in c or c++, but it runs
>>concurrently and it has got timers, etc...
> 
> 
> Sounds really cool... I gotta check this out... (Oh yeah - I said that
> yesterday too, didn't I? I'm a busy person sadly....)

If you are based in London, then try to check this bookcase shops around 

I got one on verilog and it comes with the foundation tools. Then you 
need to buy the actual programmer device and the appropriate FPGA chip 
for you project.

>>Once you compile it, your
>>compiler will generate logic gates interconnected to generate your
>>circuit. Then you just transfer that to an FPGA IC and that's it. you
>>are done.
> 
> 
> So you mean if I buy the right stuff I can actually have running silicon???
> 
> (Well, actually it's Germanium these days isn't it? Or is it? I have no idea
> really...)

Yep, you can have the whole NES system on a single chip. (this includes 
the graphics processor or PPU (pixels processing unit) as it is called.)

All the best

Fidel.

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