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On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:00:55 +0600 David C wrote:
>Well I wasn't thinking of fully supporting all of povray's stuff like
>some of the different light types that don't have a native equivelent in
>opengl. And then, there's transparency, reflections, refractions,
>povray's function-textures, media, imagemaps, and maybe a few more
>I havn't thought of.
David, I think it comes down to whether or not you want to spend the
time to write the OpenGL code with its inherent limitations or be
satisfied with using the already built-in quality settings in POV-Ray,
as per docs section 3.2.6.1 "Quality Settings".
--
Alan - ako### [at] povray org - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
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David C wrote:
>
> I am wondering about adding an OpenGL preview for animations. I have three
> questions.
>
> - Would it be legal to distribute since OpenGL would be doing the
> rendering and povray would only be doing the parsing?
> - Is it being done already?
> - Is it somthing that the povray comunity would be interested in using?
> (besides me)
>
> I am thinking of just using it for very fast test renders, using quick
> colors instead of real textures and simple lights so you can see how the
> objects look and how the camera moves. You could then tweak it very
> finely for animations since the edit/render/view cycle would be shorter.
I haven't followed Moray development recently, but at some time it had
animation plugin, which allowed to see animations relatively easy from
Moray (but rendering was done with Polyray dll, IIRC). Moray is for
Windows only of course, so not much for multiplatform support, but if
one can stand modeller and uses Windows, then it might be solution.
Then, couple of years ago Johannes Hubert wrote basic POV-Ray animation
program in OpenGL for the IMP. He used POB patch for handling POV-Ray
objects and displaying them. IIRC this program worked with primitives
only and was written in very short time so it didn't provided very much
functionality. Johannes is not seen recently and AFAIK he didn't
released source code for this program. Additionally, POB patch was for
older version of POV-Ray and AFAIK it is not updated for recent
version(s).
So, seems like you are on your own. RT animation would be nice, but I'm
not sure, that POV-Ray is the best program for doing this...
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> Have you thought much about how you would handle CSG? I don't know
> anything about Warp's tesselation patch that Chris referred to, but CSG
can
> be a show-stopper. Finding an algorithm to generate meshes for arbitrary
> CSG combinations is difficult.
Moray manages to evaluate csg quite happily (with opengl) however it can be
slow for complex operations, so for use in a animation preview system it may
take (in some cases) almost as long to evaluate the csg as it would to
render it normally.
--
Rick
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://povray.co.uk
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://kitty5.com
Hi-Impact web site design & database driven e-commerce
TEL : +44 (01625) 266358 - FAX : +44 (01625) 611913 - ICQ : 15776037
PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA
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I'd encourage you to do this. There is a real need for this kind of
functionality.
Also, please ignore the nay-sayers. Every time this subject comes up, a
number of POV participants jump on the head of the suggestor and flog the
suggestor mercilessly. Ignore them and do what you think is right.
Jim
http://www.kressworks.com/
"David C" <dav### [at] satnet> wrote in message news:3a632dad@news.povray.org...
> I am wondering about adding an OpenGL preview for animations. I have three
> questions.
>
> - Would it be legal to distribute since OpenGL would be doing the
> rendering and povray would only be doing the parsing?
> - Is it being done already?
> - Is it somthing that the povray comunity would be interested in using?
> (besides me)
>
> I am thinking of just using it for very fast test renders, using quick
> colors instead of real textures and simple lights so you can see how the
> objects look and how the camera moves. You could then tweak it very
> finely for animations since the edit/render/view cycle would be shorter.
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David C wrote:
> - Is it somthing that the povray comunity would be interested in using?
> (besides me)
I have some particle-based animations that would be neat to let run like all
day as either a screensaver for entertainment value or to explore the "steady
state" condition after thousands of frames. I'd like to keep it in povray
scene language syntax because then I could easily put it all back to make
"real" animations when I'm done.
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In article <3a63b91e@news.povray.org>, "David C" <dav### [at] satnet>
wrote:
> Well I wasn't thinking of fully supporting all of povray's stuff like
> some of the different light types that don't have a native equivelent in
> opengl. And then, there's transparency, reflections, refractions,
> povray's function-textures, media, imagemaps, and maybe a few more
> I havn't thought of.
I certainly wasn't suggesting you should try to support all of
that...just shadowless point lights, ambient lighting, solid colors, and
orthographic and perspective cameras would be enough, at least at first.
> I think, if I do actually start building it, that I'd try to mimic
> the behavior of native rendering as much as possible.
Probably a good idea.
> For me, this is all just talk so far. I'd love to do it, but I'm not
> sure I will.
It would be an interesting project...and might keep Warp's mesh patch
alive long enough for someone to fix it. ;-)
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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Alan Kong wrote:
> David, I think it comes down to whether or not you want to spend the
thinking 'Huh? What's this?' scrolling up, 'oh, David C' a "senior moment" as
it were
--
David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery: http://davidf.faricy.net/
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Jim Kress wrote:
>
> I'd encourage you to do this. There is a real need for this kind of
> functionality.
>
> Also, please ignore the nay-sayers. Every time this subject comes up, a
> number of POV participants jump on the head of the suggestor and flog the
> suggestor mercilessly. Ignore them and do what you think is right.
It's blasphemy, Jim. I say nay ! We never had it before so why do we
need it now ? OGL is crappy compared to raytracing. Might as well add
gif output support as long as we are going backwards. I don't like the
idea. You want to do what ? Never had it, never will.
<g>
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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LOL!
You've decided to become a "say nayer" rather than a "nay sayer"?
Jim
"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message
news:3A6536C8.70DFA792@pacbell.net...
>
>
> Jim Kress wrote:
> >
> > I'd encourage you to do this. There is a real need for this kind of
> > functionality.
> >
> > Also, please ignore the nay-sayers. Every time this subject comes up, a
> > number of POV participants jump on the head of the suggestor and flog
the
> > suggestor mercilessly. Ignore them and do what you think is right.
>
> It's blasphemy, Jim. I say nay ! We never had it before so why do we
> need it now ? OGL is crappy compared to raytracing. Might as well add
> gif output support as long as we are going backwards. I don't like the
> idea. You want to do what ? Never had it, never will.
>
> <g>
>
> --
> Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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In article <3a632dad@news.povray.org>, "David C" <dav### [at] satnet>
wrote:
> - Would it be legal to distribute since OpenGL would be doing the
> rendering and povray would only be doing the parsing?
Well, there don't seem to be any objections from the POV-Team, since
OpenGL is cross-platform and wouldn't affect normal operation of the
program. And now that the tesselation patch has been released, it should
be quite possible...
I'd start by adding Tesselate() and DrawOpenGL() methods to each object.
The default Tesselate() method would use Warp's code, but object
specific ones could be added later. The default DrawOpenGL() method
would use the Tesselate() method of the object to generate a mesh (maybe
using some global settings or per-object defaults for quality), and use
that to draw the object, but again could be implemented separately for
specific objects.
It might be a good idea to add an object type variable in the process,
it could make some things quite a bit easier. Adding Tesselate() methods
will be necessary for some stuff I'm doing, maybe we should work
together on some of the stuff to make sure the separate patches are
compatable.
Maybe factor out the mesh data stuff into a separate area of code so it
isn't mesh object specific, this might be useful for when you need mesh
data but aren't rendering it directly, but likely a lot of work. It may
be better just to pass mesh objects around.
What do you think?
--
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/
<><
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