Am 27.04.2015 um 09:37 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
> On 26/04/2015 10:09 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Generally $0 *million* for licensing stuff like this.  Licensing for
>> stuff like this tends to run in the thousands, not the millions.
>
> Really? How do you know that?

He might have done some... research?

> I would have expected they just charge the
> maximum amount possible.  And considering how many million people
> typically spend on the salaries of the thousands of people working on a
> game, a few million of the game engine they licensed is probably peanuts...

... but considering how CryTech doesn't have a monopoly on advanced game 
engines, game studios might still prefer not to choose the most 
expensive one, and rather make a few more peanuts worth of profit instead.

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On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 21:29:44 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 26/04/2015 20:54, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Try being responsible for thousands of desktops in a corporate
>> environment.
> 
> I knew that you would say that. :-)

Of course you did. :)

> Is Stream used by corporates?

Of course not, unless playing games (the primary purpose for Steam's 
existence) is part of the job description.

But that misses my point - keeping software up to date - especially when 
it comes to MMO-style games - is really important.  I've been playing 
Destiny lately on my PS3, and it has an auto-update function built in 
that just works (never had a problem with it).  But if the game isn't 
updated and I connect to servers that have been, then that can create 
problems - the entire "system" has to be updated, which includes all the 
clients.

That's part of Steam's purpose, when it comes to games.

Don't want to use Steam to get Blender?  Cool, don't.  But for those who 
use Steam (esp. on Linux, like me) to run Blender and other stuff, 
finding the latest official package and updating it is a royal PITA (it's 
not part of the standard repos, and not maintained officially as part of 
the non-standard repos,so updates come when they come).  Steam keeps it 
up to date for me.

Which is nice.  Since it's related to POV-Ray in a tangential fashion, I 
thought others here may not have seen the announcement, so I passed it 
along as a matter of interest for those who might be interested.

For those who aren't - move along, nothing to see here. :)

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 08:37:54 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 26/04/2015 10:09 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Generally $0 *million* for licensing stuff like this.  Licensing for
>> stuff like this tends to run in the thousands, not the millions.
> 
> Really? How do you know that? 

I start from the assumption that when you make a statement like that, 
it's pretty much the opposite of reality unless you've provided some 
supporting information that makes logical sense.

> I would have expected they just charge the
> maximum amount possible. 

....Aaaaand yep.  Total lack of understanding when it comes to pricing 
products has been demonstrated.

> And considering how many million people
> typically spend on the salaries of the thousands of people working on a
> game, a few million of the game engine they licensed is probably
> peanuts...

Math fail.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 27/04/2015 05:37 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 08:37:54 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> Really? How do you know that?
>
> I start from the assumption that when you make a statement like that,
> it's pretty much the opposite of reality unless you've provided some
> supporting information that makes logical sense.

Oh, right. I thought maybe you had some actual experience in this area.

>> I would have expected they just charge the
>> maximum amount possible.
>
> ....Aaaaand yep.  Total lack of understanding when it comes to pricing
> products has been demonstrated.

What, charge the customer the maximum amount of money they will pay? 
Isn't that how business operates?

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>> Really? How do you know that?
>
> He might have done some... research?

It's not like you can ask a company "by the way, how much did you pay 
for CryEngine?" I very much doubt they would answer you. (It may also be 
subject to an NDA, but I doubt it.)

> ... but considering how CryTech doesn't have a monopoly on advanced game
> engines, game studios might still prefer not to choose the most
> expensive one, and rather make a few more peanuts worth of profit instead.

But on the first hand, AAA developers seem to think that the only way to 
sell games is to have the best, most impressive game engine with the 
most incredible graphics. (It's not like *gameplay* matters or anything 
like that.) So presumably they buy the most technically impressive 
engine. Money isn't the primary considering here.

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On 27/04/2015 17:37, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Math fail.

That is because it is Maths :-P

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 27/04/2015 17:35, Jim Henderson wrote:

> But that misses my point - keeping software up to date - especially when
> it comes to MMO-style games - is really important.

I am an egg.

 > I've been playing
> Destiny lately on my PS3, and it has an auto-update function built in
> that just works (never had a problem with it).  But if the game isn't
> updated and I connect to servers that have been, then that can create
> problems - the entire "system" has to be updated, which includes all the
> clients.
>
> That's part of Steam's purpose, when it comes to games.
>

That fits in with my limited experience.

> Don't want to use Steam to get Blender?  Cool, don't.  But for those who
> use Steam (esp. on Linux, like me) to run Blender and other stuff,
> finding the latest official package and updating it is a royal PITA (it's
> not part of the standard repos, and not maintained officially as part of
> the non-standard repos,so updates come when they come).  Steam keeps it
> up to date for me.
>
I live and learn. Sometimes I die and learn

> Which is nice.  Since it's related to POV-Ray in a tangential fashion, I
> thought others here may not have seen the announcement, so I passed it
> along as a matter of interest for those who might be interested.
>

Okay, not joking now. Thank you on behalf...

My point which I did not make is that constant updates can be a Pita. 
Every time I've updated Blender I have to go and change my preferences 
to what I've had before. I know, I know... But I'm lazy.
I depend on the basic functionality although I appreciate all the work 
the community does. Although I sometimes get the impression that if you 
are not using the latest wizz bang version you are looked down on.
Kids. ;-)

Same with PovRay. I have Ver 3.5 for Moray, 3.6 for Bishop3D and 3.7 for 
speed.


> For those who aren't - move along, nothing to see here.:)

Except skid marks.

Sorry if it seemed that I jumped on you. Not intended. Too much respect.
As my old dead grannie used to say.
"Your tongue will get you hung."

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:22:37 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 27/04/2015 17:35, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> But that misses my point - keeping software up to date - especially
>> when it comes to MMO-style games - is really important.
> 
> I am an egg.

:)

> Sorry if it seemed that I jumped on you. Not intended. Too much respect.
> As my old dead grannie used to say.
> "Your tongue will get you hung."

I like that saying.  Sorry if it seemed I jumped on you - that's on me, 
not you.  Been dealing with some personal life crap this last weekend, 
and it kinda spilled over.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:06:31 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> Really? How do you know that?
>>
>> He might have done some... research?
> 
> It's not like you can ask a company "by the way, how much did you pay
> for CryEngine?" I very much doubt they would answer you. (It may also be
> subject to an NDA, but I doubt it.)

Oh, FFS:

http://bit.ly/1dlJfKx

The first f-ing hit, Andy.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:04:26 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 27/04/2015 05:37 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 08:37:54 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> Really? How do you know that?
>>
>> I start from the assumption that when you make a statement like that,
>> it's pretty much the opposite of reality unless you've provided some
>> supporting information that makes logical sense.
> 
> Oh, right. I thought maybe you had some actual experience in this area.

When it comes down to it, using Google to find the answer is something I 
have experience with.

>>> I would have expected they just charge the maximum amount possible.
>>
>> ....Aaaaand yep.  Total lack of understanding when it comes to pricing
>> products has been demonstrated.
> 
> What, charge the customer the maximum amount of money they will pay?
> Isn't that how business operates?

And what makes you think that value is "millions of dollars"? On what 
planet does that make any business sense at all?

It's like explaining picking an hourly rate to someone who charges too 
little for their work.  If you charge $10/hour for your work, it takes 
you 40 hours to make $400.  If you charge $25/hour for your work, in 20 
hours you make more than double that.

So no, in business, you don't charge "the maximum amount of money a 
customer will pay" - you determine the point where the *most* customers 
will pay that generates you a good profit.

If your market share is *1*, you might charge $1 million, but you 
probably won't get anyone to pay it.

But as it happens, CryEngine 3 doesn't have a royalty.  Start using 
Google to do some research before making crazy statements - you only 
damage your own reputation by making such ridiculous statements.

You're a smart guy.  Use your brain.

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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