Recently a couple of interesting things have happened in my life.

- There was a (mock) competition that aimed to locate the longest 
temporary employed scientist in the Netherlands. I won with 25 years and 
4 months so far. The runner up has a month less, we have a safe distance 
from the rest (http://platform-hnu.nl/prijsvraag/). For comparison: the 
legal maximum is 4 years.
- that result was published on the cover of a national newspaper 
(https://twitter.com/PLATFORMHNU/status/506568172695474176/photo/1
article at
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2686/Binnenland/article/detail/3733455/2014/09/02/Zorg-in-de-universitaire-wereld-de-wetenschapper-als-flexwerker.dhtml)

including a picture of me :( inside there was also an interview.
- This week a national magazine (Vrij Nederland) ran an article making 
the point was that public funded institutions (like universities and 
hospitals) use all sort of tricks to circumvent laws and among other 
things keep employees longer on temporary positions than legal. The 
author even invented a new verb for that sort of unethical behaviour. I 
am also a verb now \o/

So far the fun part. Temporary inherently implies that the contract ends 
at some point. I am unemployed since Aug 1st. (The runner up is also 
unemployed, so (s)he is not catching up while I am down)
Being unemployed costs a lot more time than I expected, so I am just 
slowly getting more time to do new things. But I am (re)studying some 
programming languages, so that at least is fun.


-- 
Everytime the IT department forbids something that a researcher deems
necessary for her work there will be another hole in the firewall.

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On 23/09/2014 14:50, andrel wrote:
> Recently a couple of interesting things have happened in my life.
>

[Snip]

> author even invented a new verb for that sort of unethical behaviour. I
> am also a verb now \o/
>
"Careful, you might get andreled."


> So far the fun part. Temporary inherently implies that the contract ends
> at some point. I am unemployed since Aug 1st.

Did you know what the prize was when you were entered?


 >  (The runner up is also
> unemployed, so (s)he is not catching up while I am down)
> Being unemployed costs a lot more time than I expected, so I am just
> slowly getting more time to do new things. But I am (re)studying some
> programming languages, so that at least is fun.
>
>

I was made redundant from a Permanent job about 20 years ago. It was 
probably one of the better things that has happened to me, in retrospect.

And think of all the tax you pay in the Netherlands. Time to get some of 
the benefits. :-)

The other thing is having more time to spend money is costly.

My condolences these things can shock your system.
And I am sure it won't be long before you are back working again.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Am 23.09.2014 15:50, schrieb andrel:

> So far the fun part. Temporary inherently implies that the contract ends
> at some point. I am unemployed since Aug 1st.

That sucks. If you accumulated those 25 years and 4 months at a single 
employer, in Germany you would be entitled to permanent employment (or 
compensation) after just 2 years...

... which was originally designed to reduce the number of temporary 
contracts in favor of permanent ones, but in practice only leads to a 
quasi-guarantee that temporary employment contracts will /not/ be 
renewed after 2 years.

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On 23-9-2014 20:11, clipka wrote:
> Am 23.09.2014 15:50, schrieb andrel:
>
>> So far the fun part. Temporary inherently implies that the contract ends
>> at some point. I am unemployed since Aug 1st.
>
> That sucks. If you accumulated those 25 years and 4 months at a single
> employer, in Germany you would be entitled to permanent employment (or
> compensation) after just 2 years...

Here it is, I think, now two contracts and 4 years. So if you have one 
year contracts 2 is max, but one can be for 3.

Technically I was not all that time with one employer, though for the 
last 9 years I was full time at the same desk with the same group of 
people. Before that mostly full time but also sometimes only part time 
in the AMC. So, I was more than 25 years doing basically the same work 
at the same place, but only the last 2 contracts and last 4 years count, 
so they are safe. (losing a lot of knowledge and experience, but who 
cares). If this had been a private company, it would be illegal as well.

> ... which was originally designed to reduce the number of temporary
> contracts in favor of permanent ones, but in practice only leads to a
> quasi-guarantee that temporary employment contracts will /not/ be
> renewed after 2 years.

In science we often need longer times. First as a PhD student (which is 
a job here) then as a post-doc. Sometimes post-doc's still need to 
finish things after a project so there is a need for extending temporary 
contracts. Problems start to arise when the post-doc, besides her 
project, has to take on structural tasks to keep the department running.
We are all aware that the system is broken, but nobody is take serious 
action. They just let the lawyers think up a way to circumvent the law 
for a couple of years. And when that is forbidden, try something else.



-- 
Everytime the IT department forbids something that a researcher deems
necessary for her work there will be another hole in the firewall.

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On 23-9-2014 17:36, Stephen wrote:
> On 23/09/2014 14:50, andrel wrote:
>> Recently a couple of interesting things have happened in my life.
>>
>
> [Snip]
>
>> author even invented a new verb for that sort of unethical behaviour. I
>> am also a verb now \o/
>>
> "Careful, you might get andreled."

I was actually 'linnenbanked'. (the verb is from my last name, my 
official first name is too common. If the journalist had know that I 
normally use andrel he might have gone for that.

>> So far the fun part. Temporary inherently implies that the contract ends
>> at some point. I am unemployed since Aug 1st.
>
> Did you know what the prize was when you were entered?

Yes. There will be a party/symposium to draw attention to the situation 
later this year. The price was that someone is going to pick me up to go 
there. (no money, no cup, not even a contract will be awarded) National 
coverage was not foreseen, but a nice bonus.

>
>  >  (The runner up is also
>> unemployed, so (s)he is not catching up while I am down)
>> Being unemployed costs a lot more time than I expected, so I am just
>> slowly getting more time to do new things. But I am (re)studying some
>> programming languages, so that at least is fun.
>>
>>
>
> I was made redundant from a Permanent job about 20 years ago.

Yes, I have been longer temporary than many people in permanent positions.

> It was
> probably one of the better things that has happened to me, in retrospect.

I am hoping it will be for me too.

> And think of all the tax you pay in the Netherlands. Time to get some of
> the benefits. :-)
>
> The other thing is having more time to spend money is costly.

I try to hide in my room at home during office hours, so that is not a 
problem yet.

>
> My condolences these things can shock your system.
> And I am sure it won't be long before you are back working again.
>


-- 
Everytime the IT department forbids something that a researcher deems
necessary for her work there will be another hole in the firewall.

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andrel <byt### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> - This week a national magazine (Vrij Nederland) ran an article making 
> the point was that public funded institutions (like universities and 
> hospitals) use all sort of tricks to circumvent laws and among other 
> things keep employees longer on temporary positions than legal.

I have noticed something similar here in Finland.

Finnish law has quite strict statutes protecting employees. Firstly,
you can't just fire an employee for no reason; the reason for firing
someone must be justified. (This means in practice that if someone
gets fired without good reason, they have a legal standing to sue
the employer.)

Secondly, even with a good and acceptable reason the employer must
give a notification to the employee three months in advance. (In
other words, unless the firm goes outright bankcrupt overnight or
there are other catastrophic reasons that the company cannot keep
paying an employee, they have to keep the employee for three more
months.) It's just not possible for an employer to go to an employee
and tell them "no need to come back tomorrow, you're fired" just like
that.

But of course many companies have found a way around both problems.
You see, rather than making permanent employment contracts, they make
extremely short temporary contracts that they just renew over and over
again for as long as the employee is hired. These temporary contracts
are typically for periods of three to even just one month.

You see, you can't fire somebody without good reason. However, there's
no law that forces an employer to renew a temporary contract. This means
that if the employer just wants to fire someone, they simply stop
renewing. They only have to keep paying the salary for the remaining
of the current contract (which is often much less than 3 months.)

There *is* a law that somewhat handles this, that says something along
the lines that temporary contracts can only be renewed a certain number
of times before the employee must be contracted on a permanent basis,
but seemingly this is hard to enforce and nobody does. (One would
think that labor unions would be all over this, but apparently not.
Although I suppose it depends on the labor union. Some are much, much
stronger than others.)

I have heard of people being employed for *years* with constantly-renewed
three-month and even two-month contracts, even though this ought to be
a legally questionable thing to do.

(At least these employees get all the same legal benefits as those who
have a permanent contract, eg. in terms of holydays and legal protection.
However, they have to live in constant fear that their employer one day
decides not to renew.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 23/09/2014 20:29, andrel wrote:
>>> So far the fun part. Temporary inherently implies that the contract ends
>>> at some point. I am unemployed since Aug 1st.
>>
>> Did you know what the prize was when you were entered?
>
> Yes. There will be a party/symposium to draw attention to the situation
> later this year. The price was that someone is going to pick me up to go
> there. (no money, no cup, not even a contract will be awarded) National
> coverage was not foreseen, but a nice bonus.

I do hope that you and the runner up tell the press and they kick up a 
fuss.

National Press Headline.

*Unlinnenbank Linnenbank*

As an aside. When I translated the article on the web. I got a Latin 
translation. Shameful I could read the Dutch one better.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Again the Monetary System and its "creative" ways to improve the profit 
of a company at the expense of employees, but some people will argue 
money isn't the source of most corruption. At least your Country is 
doing something about it, I hope it's enough noise to actually solve it.

1 more reason for me to advocate for TheVenusProject.com and The 
ZeitgeistMovement.com and similar efforts, which is simply better 
resource distribution mechanisms, as people worldwide is realizing how 
bad capitalism if for Humanity.

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On 24-9-2014 0:04, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Again the Monetary System and its "creative" ways to improve the profit
> of a company at the expense of employees,

FYI I was a scientist working at an institute of the Royal Netherlands 
Academy of Arts and Sciences, not exactly a capitalistic multinational. 
The situation is a lot more subtle and complex than you suggest.

-- 
Everytime the IT department forbids something that a researcher deems
necessary for her work there will be another hole in the firewall.

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Probably, but the bottom line is the same, money, and the fact that you 
were not given a position in a scientific environment that's not for 
profit and working for the issuer of Laws, your own Government, breaks 
them, it's even more disappointing, the only reason I see is to save 
money; why you could've been hired as a freelancer maybe  for better pay?

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