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On 1 Oct 1998 14:34:27 -0500, Eric <eri### [at] geocities com> wrote:
>Once again, another Pov-ray op trying to defend the criminal activities of
>Twyst.
I guess I missed something. Would you care to quote the specific line
where I defended any alleged "criminal activities"? I was pretty sure
I only defended all of the other ops on twysted.net and #povray from your
baseless and prejudiced attacks.
>What everyone must realize is that the argument between Twyst and I
>erupted out of the fact that I was trying to help a new user. Twyst made
>that almost impossible with his incessant "script" tests.
It didn't erupt out of the fact that you were trying to help a new user.
It erupted out of the fact that you were incapable of ignoring a few lines
of unnecessary text emitted by Twyst's script. I didn't notice the guy
you were helping complaining about them. It looks like he went away happy.
What about all the people who were trying to have a conversation while you
posted what looks like a sizeable chunk of POV code in channel? That's why
we have DCC. Why weren't you using it?
>As for a lawsuit, i would enjoy the challenge, and due to the provable loss
>that I had due to Twyst's actions, I intend to pursue any and all actions
>against Twyst.
Provable? Where are your logs? What evidence do you have? Didn't you
wipe out all your evidence, if you had any, when you reinstalled Windows?
It looks like the only "proof" we have is Twyst's logs, where he claims
self-defense against a Denial of Service attack from you, which is just as
illegal as a nuke attack. In addition to that, there's a substantial body
of evidence, including Microsoft press releases, that shows that so-called
'nuke' attacks don't cause any more permanent damage to a Windows
installation than any other unrecoverable page fault or even a power
failure would under the same circumstances.
Part of the responsibility lies with you, as well. If I leave the keys in
the car with the door open, I have a much weaker case when the bad guys come
along and take it. If you failed to install the security updates that make
impossible what you claim is a devastating attack, and if you didn't feel
your data was important enough to create and follow a backup procedure, you
also have a much weaker case.
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Im Beitrag <01bddf1b$cf535d20$15efebd0@debbiemi> , "Eric" <erici2112@geocities.com>
schrieb:
>That just goes to prove my point.
Well, not exactly...your point that he made POV-Ray available before proper release
date is simply wrong (it *was* released!!!), and your other statement is something I
do not know for sure!
>> Hmm, I did not know that he is a member...
>
>His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as "assistant
>webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
I said I don't *know* that he is a team member, he is not listed anywhere in the
program docs and I never met him in the (private area of the) POVRAY forum.
I don't now if he is "assistant webmaster", as I could read out of the IRC he only
said he was offered it, but I may be wrong. If you want to know it you have to ask
Chris Young if he is, he is the team leader and he can tell you definetly.
>And moreover, my message was one of warning to people that were unaware of
>the risks they ran when associating with the #povray channel.
Well, you were not very kind in this either...but whatever problems there are between
you and Twyst, I don't think you should discuss them this way because attacks on your
ot Twysts computers will be nearly impossible to prove - everybody can edit a text
file or a log or whatever, I think.
I would simply forget this and not go there again...avoiding trouble is better then
running against it. Your current way is the one of a child coming to his parents (this
is a metaphor!!!) and telling them another child hit it. What will the parents do? The
only think they can do is tell the other childs parents, not more. And all this
newsgroup can do, is to say that attacking the computer someone else is not "nice",
thats all - the rest has to be settled between you and Twyst (if you both want this)
and does not belong into a newsgroup.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom
I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://www.povray.org
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>His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as "assistant
>webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
He was offered some work as assistant webmaster by us. This does not make him a
POV-Team member, and as far as I am aware he has never stated that he is a
member.
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I've got to agree with Ken here:
|Life is much too short to get so work up about things like
|this.
Get over it, I mean, you're still young (I assume by reading your posts that
you're mid-teens), don't piss around with insignificant brouhaha. There is
life outside the online world <--- 100% true, less fattening!
Paul
www.symetrixdesign.com
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my statement was not completely wrong, he states the fact that he jumped
the gun on his web page...check, i don't lie.
as far as this matter is concerned, im sorry if i wasted anyones time, i
just wanted them to be aware of what could happen to them from associations
with this guy.
i am pursuing this matter legally from here on out, so i will post this
only every month or so, to cgrr so that everyone there will be aware of the
risk they take.
Twyst, my lawyers will soon be in contact with you.
Eric
Thorsten Froehlich <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> wrote in article
<3613e84c.0@news.povray.org>...
> Im Beitrag <01bddf1b$cf535d20$15efebd0@debbiemi> , "Eric"
<eri### [at] geocitiescom> schrieb:
>
> >That just goes to prove my point.
>
> Well, not exactly...your point that he made POV-Ray available before
proper release date is simply wrong (it *was* released!!!), and your other
statement is something I do not know for sure!
>
> >> Hmm, I did not know that he is a member...
> >
> >His statement is that he IS associated with that organization as
"assistant
> >webmaster" for the Pov-ray page. Is he lying?
>
> I said I don't *know* that he is a team member, he is not listed anywhere
in the program docs and I never met him in the (private area of the) POVRAY
forum.
> I don't now if he is "assistant webmaster", as I could read out of the
IRC he only said he was offered it, but I may be wrong. If you want to
know it you have to ask Chris Young if he is, he is the team leader and he
can tell you definetly.
>
> >And moreover, my message was one of warning to people that were unaware
of
> >the risks they ran when associating with the #povray channel.
>
> Well, you were not very kind in this either...but whatever problems there
are between you and Twyst, I don't think you should discuss them this way
because attacks on your ot Twysts computers will be nearly impossible to
prove - everybody can edit a text file or a log or whatever, I think.
>
> I would simply forget this and not go there again...avoiding trouble is
better then running against it. Your current way is the one of a child
coming to his parents (this is a metaphor!!!) and telling them another
child hit it. What will the parents do? The only think they can do is tell
the other childs parents, not more. And all this newsgroup can do, is to
say that attacking the computer someone else is not "nice", thats all - the
rest has to be settled between you and Twyst (if you both want this) and
does not belong into a newsgroup.
>
>
> Thorsten
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
> e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom
>
> I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
> Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://www.povray.org
>
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Eric wrote in message <01bddf7b$34be4c60$11efebd0@debbiemi>...
>my statement was not completely wrong, he states the fact that he jumped
>the gun on his web page...check, i don't lie.
Yes he says he jumped the gun and didn't get the FINAL version. IE that
there was a small bug left and the pov team fixed it at the last second. why
are you argueing with the pov team itself? if they had no problem why should
you?
>as far as this matter is concerned, im sorry if i wasted anyones time, i
>just wanted them to be aware of what could happen to them from associations
>with this guy.
>
>i am pursuing this matter legally from here on out, so i will post this
>only every month or so, to cgrr so that everyone there will be aware of the
>risk they take.
Good luck. America has NO jusisdiction on this case because the crime was
perpetrated in a foreign country. Where the IS NO law against nuking. so go
ahead and pay for an attorney, you'll get no where.
>Twyst, my lawyers will soon be in contact with you.
I'm sure he is scared now.
>Eric
>
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marc wrote:
> >i am pursuing this matter legally from here on out, so i will post this
> >only every month or so, to cgrr so that everyone there will be aware of the
> >risk they take.
>
> Good luck. America has NO jusisdiction on this case because the crime was
> perpetrated in a foreign country. Where the IS NO law against nuking. so go
> ahead and pay for an attorney, you'll get no where.
Well, it's a pity you think there is no international law and it's a pity you
think there is no law against nuking. I'm pretty sure that if you can establish
a clear case you can reach success at demonstrating who 'nuked' you and such a
behaviour can be severely reprimended - but you need a really good reason for to
justify the expense and you need your facts right.Internet is a pretty new area
when it comes to legal issues, but nethertheless the law is not bound by mere
rules that say 'nuking' is or is not a crime. Damaging data in someone else's
property and/or attempting to breach someone's privacy is a crime that has
already lead to prosecutions and convictions, one of the biggest software
supplier (the biggest ?) on this planet has been convicted at least once of such
an offence and is not ready to try doing it again.
Regards,
Al.
--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.
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Hello all, in light of this recent development, I'd like to add what I
can to this discussion. I'll try to keep it fairly short.
First I would like to say that I was one of the first ops in #povray
along with IR, so I've known Twyst since he first came. Twyst from the
first day was always very enthusiastic to help the channel. He setup
bots and the idea to link dalnet, and efnet together so that the
channels might have a better chance to survive if linked than alone.
(later newnet aswell.) While he and I have at times had our
differences, he has always been a good friend, and has tried to be
helpful to anyone who has had questions. Over the last couple years,
he, I, and the rest of #povray have formed a small community that I
continually enjoy to visit. The topic is not always povray, this is
true. I myself often ramble on about radiance. Honestly though, I don't
think there is a better place to learn and observe how people create
povray scenes, and 3d graphics in general. You can always find someone
willing to look at your images and offer advice and support. You also
have the opportunity to learn how someone else did something you may
find useful later.
I truly hope that Eric and Twyst can work this out reasonably and
calmly. I just wanted to let you, the usenet community know, that
#povray is not the warzone it may seem to be. I can understand Eric's
frustration, though I do not think Twyst is what Eric has made him out
to be either.
Thank You,
Mark Nelson
Nite_Hawk on
EFnet IRC #e #povray
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Eric wrote:
>
> Just thought i would drop a little line about a character called Twyst.
>
I have been following this thread for the last week, as well as having
been a witness to the conversation which led to him getting banned the
second time, and have now decided to post a reply. I have been reluctant
to do so because I'm not really interested in taking part of a whiny
debate, but I really do feel I need to express my opinion on several
issues which have developed as a result of the initial post.
In case it has not yet been mentioned, "Eric" was, and may still be nown
as _panacea and frequented the #povray channel on Dalnet. Other than he
two main instances, he seemed fairly easy to get along with, and I orked
on a small IMP related project with him for a short time.
I was not present during the whole "nuking" incident and only read the
logs. While I feel that Twyst nuking _panacea over a text flood may
have been a bit extreme, _panacea was willing to forgive and forget
about it, they worked out their little problem, _panacea was unbanned,
and everyone was happy. Had _panacea's hard disk been corrupted as a
result of this incident, he sure never bothered to mention it to anyone.
I've had to reload windows before, and I will tell you, it's a pain in
the ass, and I'm not the least bit bashful about expressing my feelings
for microsoft products while I'm doing it. _Panacea did none of these
things. He was only upset about getting banned and threating legal
action for a nuke, but nothing about losing data or having to spend time
reformatting/reinstalling his hard drive.
Three weeks later, Twyst was running a mp3 player script in the #povray
channel, and we all know by now that this led to a long drawn out flame
war which resulted in _panacea getting banned. While this little fight
was going on, I was talking with him trying to calm him down and get him
to drop the whole issue before he got himself banned. He made it very
clear that he was well aware that he would be banned for what he was
saying, and also that he did NOT care about pissing anyone off in the
process. Not only was he chewing out Twyst, he also started chewing out
Tea-Party (another user on at the time), just because Tea wanted the
fight to stop so the discussion could move back to a more povray related
topic.
I personally have to deal with arrogant people in my life (not just
IRC). This might come as a shock to some, but there are a lot of people
in the world who have a "holier than thou" attitude about themselves,
and they can be challenging to work with. Amazingly though, most
people are able to put up with them, or find ways to avoid them.
_panacea was not willing to just grim and bear it or leave the channel
if Twyst's very existance was too much for him to handle. If he was
helping another user, he could have just as easily done it in a private
chat, free from ANY distractions. But since that obviously wasn't an
option, he instead chose to go off and start a flame war instead. As
far as I'm concerned, he got what he deserved. End of story.
Then he posts a message to the newsgroups, hoping to discredit Twyst and
his website, as well as explain to everyone how miserable his own life
really is because Twyst was born. He claims that Twyst's nuke attack
killed/corrupted/erased his harddrive. THIS IS A LIE!!! He did not
spend hours reloading his system, he just made the whole thing up to
garner sympathy, since he realized that his endless whining would
probably go unnoticed unless he could make himself appear bruised and
beaten at the hands of the Mighty Pov-God Twyst. He is only playing
everyone for fools, and he deserves only to be ignored.
As for his #povray2 channel, it is not a channel created for the express
purpose of discussing Povray. It was created out of despise for Twyst
and those who choose to side with him. He has made blatent insults
toward the entire Povray community by stating that anyone who has not
created a large number of scene files (up to his standards no doubt),
does not deserve the recognition of others. The fact that some people
are able to contribute to the development of a raytracing program
without making lots of pretty pictures seems to be a point that
_panacea has missed completely. If you've never entered the IRTC, or
haven't put up a webpage with pictures that have taken hundreds of hours
of work, just remember.... he's insulting you as well. He is NOT making
any friends, and he very well stated that he doesn't care either.
He reminds me, in a way, of someone I knew a long time ago. He was
probably about 10 at the time and seemed to be generally upset with the
whole world because life just wasn't fair and things just never went his
way. That guy grew up and got over his attitude problem and found
that the world really is a much better place from a different
perspective. In time, _panacea will get past puberty and get over his
petty differences. Until then, he should be given as much credibility
as the kid who punches someone bigger than him, then complains when the
other hits back.
Paul Mathis
aka
Restil
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This is the point of reason I posted about this at c.g.r.r in reply to the
Twysted.net thing.
Having not ever been there at #povray it quickly becomes thought of as a bad
place and prevents others from going there except maybe the risk-takers.
See what I mean? Starts to sound pretty ominous. I don't think this stuff has
any place in the POV-Ray community. <play anthem here>
There's my input (again), cluttering all the NGs some more ;-|
Message <36180766.9C092E2C@tc.umn.edu>, Mark Nelson typed...
> I truly hope that Eric and Twyst can work this out reasonably and
>calmly. I just wanted to let you, the usenet community know, that
>#povray is not the warzone it may seem to be. I can understand Eric's
>frustration, though I do not think Twyst is what Eric has made him out
>to be either.
--
omniVERSE: beyond the universe
http://members.aol.com/inversez/POVring.html
=Bob
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