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I'm asking this here because your pic got me thinkin and I wanna try
something like that too. I've been using wings for a while and done some
tuts on it but still I'm awful, I might be able to manage a character though
and then I'd have to animate it :) Here ia my questions:
1. How did you get that to pov??? Does milkshaper allow you to set pov as a
renderer, or do you have a big .inc file INCLUDING animation info.
2. In either case, how do you get a character like that to interact with a
POV-Ray environment? Lets say you make 2 buildings and you have your guy
jump from one to the other? How do all the positioning?
Thanks, and great job!!!
Corey
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> I couldn't see it.
>
> Could you try again with MPG-1, or Divx
HAH. :o) Sorry Greg, you're just a funny guy .. with constant bad luck..
;o)
Regards,
Hugo
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Looks promising! I use Wings3d and POV too, and have yet to find a bone
tool... I'll probably check out Milkshape.
Regards,
Hugo
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Corey wrote:
>I'm asking this here because your pic got me thinkin and I wanna try
>something like that too. I've been using wings for a while and done some
>tuts on it but still I'm awful, I might be able to manage a character though
>and then I'd have to animate it :) Here ia my questions:
>
>1. How did you get that to pov??? Does milkshaper allow you to set pov as a
>renderer, or do you have a big .inc file INCLUDING animation info.
>
>2. In either case, how do you get a character like that to interact with a
>POV-Ray environment? Lets say you make 2 buildings and you have your guy
>jump from one to the other? How do all the positioning?
>
Milkshape does export to povray, but it exports a plain mesh include, and I
have yet to figure out how to export keyframes for animation. What I do
is:
1) export from wings as a *.obj file
2) import to UVmapper.exe if I need good uv coords
3) import to milkshape, setup bones, assign vertexes and animate
4) now the inconvienient part-
export each of your keyframes as *.obj files to some handy folder
import each file to wings3d, select all and export as pov file.
(at this point you can have wings do another subdivision of your
model
to make it look smoother)
5) Another inconvientient part- you need to edit each of the exported
includes
to remove the texture declaration, and the object instance.
6) now you just show the keyframes in order. I use a macro I wrote to
decide which keyframe to show, and to show each keyframe for more then one
video frame.
I am thinking about writing a python script to automate as much of this
proccess as possable, but I haven't even started that yet.
as for positioning in your scene there are two things- first while
modelling keep <0,0,0> between your characters feet so when you import you
know about where they are. THe other thing is that you don't need to be
exact, if you looked at my animation frame by frame you would see that his
feet go through the floor at two frames, but this isn't visable at full
speed. Put you creation in your scene, it exists at <0,0,0>, then scale it
to fit. As far as I can tellone unit is one unit through all the programs,
so you can estimate how far to move each frame. Thats it!
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Kitsune_e wrote:
>
> This is an animation I did today of a characture which I have been working
> on for the past week. The characture was modelled in wings3d with bones
> done in milkshape3d. I wasn't very careful while creating the bones, and so
> the characture deformes oddly in places.
>
> I am posting this because I haven't seen anyone else trying this kind of
> thing with Povray. With Wings3d and Milkshape3d I can finaly do characture
> animations. These three together create a powerful toolset, and all of it
> for 25 USD. I am certain that with a little more time and effort you could
> make cinimatic quality animations by combinding these three. Now if only
> milkshape wasn't shareware.
>
> PS: I don't know how well people are going to be able to see the animation.
> I used the intel-Indeo 5.10 codec to keep the file size down, but I don't
> know if it is availible on non-windows platforms. I can repost it in almost
> any codec people would like, but I'd rather not fill up the newsgroup with
> copies of the same thing.
Looks nice but it's a bit hard to see the movement from that far and the
second half of the animation mister Clawz just sits there :)
BTW, what do you mean with noone else trying this kind of thing? Are you
referring to the size of the hands? Or character animation in general.
In that case you should look at the stuff Greg has been posting here
regularly.
It doesn't quite have the Japanese cartoon look to it, but it's very
sophisticated (and pure POV I believe).
Cheers!
Remco
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Remco de Korte wrote:
>Looks nice but it's a bit hard to see the movement from that far and the
>second half of the animation mister Clawz just sits there :)
>
>BTW, what do you mean with noone else trying this kind of thing? Are you
>referring to the size of the hands? Or character animation in general.
>In that case you should look at the stuff Greg has been posting here
>regularly.
>It doesn't quite have the Japanese cartoon look to it, but it's very
>sophisticated (and pure POV I believe).
>
>Cheers!
>
>Remco
>
If you are referring to the blob men then yes, I have seen them. I have
been seeing the blob people for some time, and they are just getting to a
really usable state. But the amount of time required to create such a
character is much too high. The what to which I am referring is polygon
mesh animation. polygon mesh animation is afaik the primary tool used in
most CG production houses today. with subdivision modelling anyone can
quickly prototype animate and render a creature which few could even make
in native povray sdl. I can understand peoples reluctance to use outside
modellers with Povray, I feel the same way myself, but these type of
results can only be achived with a polygon based model.
about the camera work- I did all those things for specific reasons. First
the distance frome the character: I tried getting closer, but those dang
claws kept hitting the camera. Also the distance from the figure covers
some of my mistakes. The ending is just an orbit to show off the fully
deformed character. I was concidering making the camera spiral inward, but
this seemed just to focus in on the wierd spots in the mesh. I am working
on his head now, maybe when I finish I will do a better animation.
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My code has two parts:
1) an "object" which is a zillion blob components, each component of which
has a transform{headtrans}, transform{femurtrans}, etc. associated with it.
2) a system where you can input things like splines for the clock/rotations
of head, clock/positions of the wrists and feet (IK).
Ultimately, I'm thinking that the system could be changed such that one
could model in other programs, and then export 18 objects (head, neck,
ribcage,humerus, forearm,etc....) into povray. Then if you were to type in
the 18 coordinates of the rotation centers for these 18 objects, boom,
you've got a character than can do everything my blob character can do,
**even** if it's not got the same size or proportions.
I know Rune mentioned that he was working on a universal system, too, but I
haven't heard much on it. Don't know if he were striving for the same, or a
"better" universality....
I was working on a HamaPatch-derived test of this system when:
i) I got inpsired to actually try an IRTC anim this round, and
ii) I remembered just how terribly my patch modelling skills suck.
"Kitsune_e" <kit### [at] hotmail com> wrote in message
news:web.3e99d98ec35c5c11e99dba90@news.povray.org...
> Remco de Korte wrote:
> >Looks nice but it's a bit hard to see the movement from that far and the
> >second half of the animation mister Clawz just sits there :)
> >
> >BTW, what do you mean with noone else trying this kind of thing? Are you
> >referring to the size of the hands? Or character animation in general.
> >In that case you should look at the stuff Greg has been posting here
> >regularly.
> >It doesn't quite have the Japanese cartoon look to it, but it's very
> >sophisticated (and pure POV I believe).
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >Remco
> >
>
> If you are referring to the blob men then yes, I have seen them. I have
> been seeing the blob people for some time, and they are just getting to a
> really usable state. But the amount of time required to create such a
> character is much too high. The what to which I am referring is polygon
> mesh animation. polygon mesh animation is afaik the primary tool used in
> most CG production houses today. with subdivision modelling anyone can
> quickly prototype animate and render a creature which few could even make
> in native povray sdl. I can understand peoples reluctance to use outside
> modellers with Povray, I feel the same way myself, but these type of
> results can only be achived with a polygon based model.
>
> about the camera work- I did all those things for specific reasons. First
> the distance frome the character: I tried getting closer, but those dang
> claws kept hitting the camera. Also the distance from the figure covers
> some of my mistakes. The ending is just an orbit to show off the fully
> deformed character. I was concidering making the camera spiral inward,
but
> this seemed just to focus in on the wierd spots in the mesh. I am working
> on his head now, maybe when I finish I will do a better animation.
>
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Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>My code has two parts:
>
>1) an "object" which is a zillion blob components, each component of which
>has a transform{headtrans}, transform{femurtrans}, etc. associated with it.
>
>2) a system where you can input things like splines for the clock/rotations
>of head, clock/positions of the wrists and feet (IK).
Hello!
Yes, the blobs and inverse kinimatics are impressive! I am amazed by what
has been accomplished so far with those techniques. Unfortunatly blobs are
slow and hard to model with when used in any large number. And the IK that
is being developed right now is only really usefull with blobs. Otherwise
you end up with odd mechanical looking joints. Not very good for modelling
organic things. If someone could build an IK that worked with patches or
meshes then it would be a different story, but this would be very
difficult.
I know that the Povray community will fight me tooth and nail on the subject
of using an outside utility. I also can understand why: SDL is so powerful
and versatile that you can do just about anything with it! It is a matter
of pride to be able to sit down and create an entire scene with just code.
Pride both in oneself, and in Povray. SDL is what makes Povray different
from other renderers. But I am afraid that at least for the time being
outside programmes are the only option for creating good character
animations in any reasonable amount of time.
In professional CG artest will use the best features from many different
programs to create their worlds. I (obviously) would advocate a similar
tactic for Pov'ers. Use the best you have availible, and show what Povray
can really do!
Bukimi, Kitsune_e: "A community collage student with delusions of becoming a
a proffessional artist/animator..."
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Kitsune_e wrote:
>
> Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> >My code has two parts:
> >
> >1) an "object" which is a zillion blob components, each component of which
> >has a transform{headtrans}, transform{femurtrans}, etc. associated with it.
> >
> >2) a system where you can input things like splines for the clock/rotations
> >of head, clock/positions of the wrists and feet (IK).
>
> Hello!
>
> Yes, the blobs and inverse kinimatics are impressive! I am amazed by what
> has been accomplished so far with those techniques. Unfortunatly blobs are
> slow and hard to model with when used in any large number. And the IK that
> is being developed right now is only really usefull with blobs. Otherwise
> you end up with odd mechanical looking joints. Not very good for modelling
> organic things. If someone could build an IK that worked with patches or
> meshes then it would be a different story, but this would be very
> difficult.
>
> I know that the Povray community will fight me tooth and nail on the subject
> of using an outside utility. I also can understand why: SDL is so powerful
> and versatile that you can do just about anything with it! It is a matter
> of pride to be able to sit down and create an entire scene with just code.
> Pride both in oneself, and in Povray. SDL is what makes Povray different
> from other renderers. But I am afraid that at least for the time being
> outside programmes are the only option for creating good character
> animations in any reasonable amount of time.
>
> In professional CG artest will use the best features from many different
> programs to create their worlds. I (obviously) would advocate a similar
> tactic for Pov'ers. Use the best you have availible, and show what Povray
> can really do!
>
> Bukimi, Kitsune_e: "A community collage student with delusions of becoming a
> a proffessional artist/animator..."
You are of course absolutely right that for professional purposes using
only POV isn't the most efficient option. The process you describe
doesn't seem like a breeze either (handtweaking every frame?). You may
wonder if, in that perspective, POV is a good choice per se. On the
other hand, it is also a matter of what type of characters you want to
animate, personal skills and what you feel most at ease with. Obviously
you are very good with modellers. I have tried a couple of them and
never got any decent result. I never put real time into it either so
that isn't a fault in the modeller, it's in me.
Please don't think I'm just seeking points to disagree with you for
arguments sake. I just think this is an interesting topic to discuss.
I would very much like to see how continue with this animation and how
you overcome the problems you encounter. As Greg I have been making
character animations using blobs and such, resulting in some very simple
character animations and aimed at a cartoonish (non anime) style. A nice
example of pure-POV character animation is Rune's Al the Alien. I'd also
like to see what POV can do with outside modellers.
CheerS!
Remco
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That is the spirit! I was just making some suggestions to get people
thinking. So that maybe they will ask themselves what would be the best
tool for the job... before creating their models out of CSG.
Remco de Korte wrote:
> A nice
>example of pure-POV character animation is Rune's Al the Alien. I'd also
>like to see what POV can do with outside modellers.
>
>CheerS!
>
>Remco
>
Yeah Al the alien is amazing, already much better then the stuff I have done
so far. Rune's stuff is a perfect example of how you could do almost
anything with Povray's SDL.
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