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Tom Stone <tom### [at] telia com> wrote:
:> - You can use a third-party program which has the ability of writing a
:> triangle mesh in POV-Ray format.
: Ah, good news again. Where can I find it?
"It"? There are many. For many purposes. Some convert meshes from other
formats, others create meshes algorithmically (eg plants and trees from
lparser algorithms) and so on. It depends on what you want to do.
: So, while a programmer can make amazing things with this format, I
: still guess that the main reason for it's inclusion in the official release is to
: provide a practical way for the average user to use UV-mapped meshes.
What else would it be? Meshes are extremely efficient primitives. POV-Ray
can render a mesh with hundreds of millions of triangles in question of
minutes. It's an extremely useful primitive because of its efficiency and
because it's the most common primitive used in modellers.
: If I want to make
: an image of a man reading a book, then it seems practical if I can use an
: UV-mapped mesh model of the man. The documentation seems to imply that I can do
: that.
Of course you can do that, but you need some way of converting that model
to a format which POV-Ray can read.
: What do the POV team gain from pretending that there isn't a need for a Mesh2
: converter on the Mac platform?
Who said there's no need for a converter? I still don't understand this idea
of yours.
--
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}// - Warp -
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Warp wrote:
> It depends on what you want to do.
I want to have people in my scenes with somewhat realistic hands. Look at Gilles
Tran's site for examples.
> it's inclusion in the official release is to
> : provide a practical way for the average user to use UV-mapped meshes.
>
> What else would it be?
Exactly. Using, as you suggested, your SDL Raytracer doesn't strike me as a practical
way for me, an agerage user, to use it. Nor do I believe, as you also said, that if I,
a single user, run the SDL Raytracer will suddenly cause Mesh2 to become a standard
format on the Mac platform.
>
> : If I want to make
> : an image of a man reading a book, then it seems practical if I can use an
> : UV-mapped mesh model of the man.
>
> Of course you can do that, but you need some way of converting that model
> to a format which POV-Ray can read.
-"I don't have a parachute like you, so I can't jump out of this plane"
-"Of course you can jump like me, as long as you have a parachute."
-"Oh, then we can both jump then?"
-"Yes, of course!"
>
> Who said there's no need for a converter? I still don't understand this idea
> of yours.
Cut and paste from an earlier posting of yours:
"Anymore? There has never been any need."
Is it really impossible to add a line in the docs (for example in 9.2.3), saying
something like:
"At the date of this release, there are no known POV converters on the Mac platform"
That's all I'm asking for.
Or, are there any Mac beta testers here that have been able to create and test an UV
mapped Mesh2 object that have been more complicated than a cube?
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"Tom Stone" <tom### [at] teliacom> wrote in message
news:3B9E0900.76AC3576@telia.com...
>
> Or, are there any Mac beta testers here that have been able to create and test
an UV
> mapped Mesh2 object that have been more complicated than a cube?
Well, there are probably some Mac beta testers who have access to a windows
machine, who can therefore copy the required converted text files across... I
have to admit that it's very hard to work out whether or not you have understood
the issue.
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Tom Melly wrote:
> I
> have to admit that it's very hard to work out whether or not you have understood
> the issue.
The only issue is the documentation.
If you read the section:
=====================
6.5.2.4 Mesh2
The new mesh syntax is designed for use in conversion from other file formats.
=====================
That information makes you look up:
=====================
9.2.3 How can I convert my scenes from format X to POV-Ray format?
You can try WCTV2Pov and Crossroads3D by Keith Rule and 3DWin by Thomas Baier.
=====================
Well, if "you" in that passage refers to me, that the information in 9.2.3 is
incorrect. I can't try any of them.
That is, this part of the docs seems to imply that all users are PC users, as "you"
is directed towards every person that reads it. The advice given is platform
specific, and that goes against the main philosophy elsewhere in the docs.
I want this part to acknowledge that not only PC users are using POV-Ray. If I read
"you" in the docs, then I want to feel that the text really are talking to me. That
is not the case right now.
That's why I initiated this discussion.
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Tom Stone wrote:
>
> Tom Melly wrote:
>
> > I
> > have to admit that it's very hard to work out whether or not you have understood
> > the issue.
>
> The only issue is the documentation.
>
> If you read the section:
> =====================
> 6.5.2.4 Mesh2
> The new mesh syntax is designed for use in conversion from other file formats.
> =====================
>
> That information makes you look up:
>
> =====================
> 9.2.3 How can I convert my scenes from format X to POV-Ray format?
> You can try WCTV2Pov and Crossroads3D by Keith Rule and 3DWin by Thomas Baier.
> =====================
Yes, I wrote that like three years ago even before the Mesh2 syntax was
conceived. Yes, there are currently no conversion utilities available on
the Mac platform that can support the Mesh2 syntax. What would you like
me to say ? I cannot give advice to Mac users in the FAQ until someone
in the POV-Ray community gets off their tailends and writes the software.
The POV-Team has no responsibility to write the conversion utility because
that is up to the community of Mac programmers to do themselves. If the Mac
platform is too restrictive for your tastes then maybe you should by a PC!
We have wasted way too much message space on this thread and this is the
last I am going to say on the subject.
--
Ken Tyler - POV-Ray Technical Asssistance Group
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Ken wrote:
> What would you like
> me to say ?
You've given two perfect examples here:
"Yes, there are currently no conversion utilities available on
the Mac platform that can support the Mesh2 syntax."
and:
"I cannot give advice to Mac users in the FAQ until someone
in the POV-Ray community gets off their tailends and writes the software."
Include either quote in 9.2.3 so the documentation will be accurate. What is there now
isn't true.
> If the Mac
> platform is too restrictive for your tastes then maybe you should by a PC!
That is also an opinion that might be used in 9.2.3. Perhaps not an opinion that I
support, but at least it acknowledges other platforms than PC. Which isn't the case
right now.
> We have wasted way too much message space on this thread
Have I spent enough time on this to make it a "Frequently Asked Question" yet? If so,
then I don't need to spend any more time on it either.
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Gilles Tran wrote:
> - if you have a file written in an other format, such as obj or 3DS, you'll need a
> converter and presently these converters are mostly for Windows. Until a Mac
> programmer writes a converter native to Mac, or until developers of commercial apps
> start implementing mesh2 exports, the situation is not going to change.
How about some Java programmers instead?
> Now, in the specific case of Poser, I guess that someone with a good understanding
of
> both the obj files exported by Poser and the mesh2 format could write a converter in
> POV script. Not the most efficient solution though.
Anyone out ther know these? I know Java quit well, so I could help spearhead this.
--
Wind the Frog!
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Tom Stone <tom### [at] teliacom> wrote:
: Cut and paste from an earlier posting of yours:
From a completely different context.
: Is it really impossible to add a line in the docs (for example in 9.2.3), saying
: something like:
: "At the date of this release, there are no known POV converters on the Mac platform"
That would probably be a lie, as I'm sure there must exist at least some
converter which support a POV-Ray format for the Mac.
--
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}// - Warp -
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Warp wrote:
>
>
> : "At the date of this release, there are no known POV converters on the Mac
platform"
>
> That would probably be a lie, as I'm sure there must exist at least some
> converter which support a POV-Ray format for the Mac.
Yasunari Iwanaga's java program "dxfPR" do a fair job of converting dxf to tringle
mesh,
but textures are not supported.
Olivier Wailly's "EPStoPOV" can (sometimes) convert an Adobe Illustrator EPS file to
Pov's Prism or Lathe object.
That is the only converters I know about.
There are perhaps some modeller that can export to Pov, like Amapi (which convert
geometry but drops colors and textures), but modellers have their own heading.
However, that's beside the point.
9.2.3 says "you can try..." and then suggest something that is clearly false.
Should I then assume that all "you can try.." elsewhere in the docs also are false?
If it is impossible to clarify 9.2.3 by adding a line, then perhaps it is possible to
have a better definition of who "you" in "you can try..." is? Like; "PC users can
try..."
That would also avoid any misunderstanding.
I've understood that the phrasing will not be changed, no matter what I say, but I
still
don't understand why is it so important to keep this lie in the FAQ? Are those words
holy? Or has the POV team decided to slowly get rid of the cross platform philosophy
and
that this is a sign that only PC versions will be made in the future? Or is there any
other way that I can interpret the fact that 9.2.3 of the docs takes it for granted
that
ALL its readers are PC users.
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:23:58 +0200, Tom Stone wrote:
>holy? Or has the POV team decided to slowly get rid of the cross platform philosophy
and
>that this is a sign that only PC versions will be made in the future? Or is there any
>other way that I can interpret the fact that 9.2.3 of the docs takes it for granted
that
>ALL its readers are PC users.
I think the answer is that you need to try decaf. You're reading far
more into a few little words than anyone ever put there.
--
#local R=rgb 99;#local P=R-R;#local F=pigment{gradient x}box{0,1pigment{gradient
y pigment_map{[.5F pigment_map{[.3R][.3F color_map{[.15red 99][.15P]}rotate z*45
translate x]}]#local H=pigment{gradient y color_map{[.5P][.5R]}scale 1/3}[.5F
pigment_map{[.3R][.3H][.7H][.7R]}]}}}camera{location.5-3*z}//only my opinions
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