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From: Markus Altendorff
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 12 Mar 2007 08:22:15
Message: <45f55407$1@news.povray.org>
Mike the Elder wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> 
>> Only six weeks have past. I would recommend at least two or three more
>> months of patience...
>>
>>  Thorsten, POV-Team
> 
> Good plan. And as for this global warming thing, another century or so of
> complacent inactivity should let us know for sure whether or not there's
> really a problem.

Call me overly sensitive, but do i sense a slight hint of sarcasm in 
that statement? ;)

In a more serious state of mind, i'm sad to see the IRTC fall into 
limbo. It's (was?) a place where you can (could?) send in your 
contributions and (quoted from the rules) "don't have to be any good." 
When it comes to 3-D, there's not much of that around the web any more. 
E.g. i wouldn't dare enter any of my stuff into the galleries of the 
Cinema4D forum that i also frequent, simply because i can't compete with 
users that do things like character design or architectural 
visualisation or movie f/x for a living. IRTC is/was where hobbyists or 
after-hour dabblers like me could go and get feedback for their work, 
and get a regular challenge to work on, learn and improve.
Then there's YouTube where you simply get lost among millions of dumb 
stunts and/or even dumber comments spewed out by spambots, and that's 
about it. Then there are all those teams of graphic design students that 
build a video as final exam (like all theses SupInfoCom people), or f/x 
pros with too much time at hand (e.g. 405-the-movie).

Doesn't leave much space to fit in...

-Markus


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From: St 
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 12 Mar 2007 12:47:03
Message: <45f59217$1@news.povray.org>
"Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg> wrote in message 
news:web.45f53a08463ebb8f6d4565230@news.povray.org...
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
>> Only six weeks have past. I would recommend at least two or three more
>> months of patience...
>>
>>  Thorsten, POV-Team
>
> Good plan. And as for this global warming thing, another century or so of
> complacent inactivity should let us know for sure whether or not there's
> really a problem.

   Gah, that's the way I see it. I really don't get it. All those years, and 
no-one can talk to the guy hosting it.

    Or, did Thorsten hint at what's to come?


      ~Steve~


>
>


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From: David Cuny
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 12 Mar 2007 14:45:02
Message: <web.45f5ac14463ebb8f8ebd4ff50@news.povray.org>
Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:

> Only six weeks have past. I would recommend at least two or three more
> months of patience...

For what? What will be different in two or three months?

To be honest, when I first read through your reply, I thought you were
kidding, just making fun of the fact that the IRTC has traditionally been
late doing things.

I'm sorry for sounding unkind, but I have real trouble believing I'd get a
response like this if this were something that the POV-Ray group really
cared about.


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From: Sabrina Kilian
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 13 Mar 2007 21:05:44
Message: <45f75878$1@news.povray.org>
David Cuny wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> 
>> Only six weeks have past. I would recommend at least two or three more
>> months of patience...
> 
> For what? What will be different in two or three months?
> 
> To be honest, when I first read through your reply, I thought you were
> kidding, just making fun of the fact that the IRTC has traditionally been
> late doing things.
> 
> I'm sorry for sounding unkind, but I have real trouble believing I'd get a
> response like this if this were something that the POV-Ray group really
> cared about.
> 
> 

Imagine that IRTC was your project, and something came up in your life
that prevented you from even having internet access. And when you got
back online, you found that other people had taken over your project.
It's not something many people would be comfortable with. Since the IRTC
admin can't be contacted, no one can even ask if they would like someone
to take over for them for a while.

For a stand in competition, check the news://irtc.stills where there is
talk of another website that should keep us busy for the time being.


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From: Trevor G Quayle
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 13 Mar 2007 21:40:34
Message: <45f760a2$1@news.povray.org>
"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in 
message news:45bf152b$1@news.povray.org...
> Folks,
>
> I've been getting a fair bit of mail about the status of the IRTC. I hope 
> to
> have some sort of indication of the direction for you to take within 24 
> hours
> of this post. For now, please just wait.
>
> -- Chris

I do find it unfortunate though that the current round can't be evaluated 
and completed in the very least.  Perhaps with the talk of the new 
competition, these entries can be ported to a closed round and given the 
attention they deserve for the people that took the time to work on them and 
submit.

-tgq


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From: Hildur K 
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 14 Mar 2007 06:35:01
Message: <web.45f7dcf0463ebb8f98f193370@news.povray.org>
Sabrina Kilian <ykg### [at] vtedu> wrote:


> Imagine that IRTC was your project, and something came up in your life
> that prevented you from even having internet access. And when you got
> back online, you found that other people had taken over your project.
> It's not something many people would be comfortable with. Since the IRTC
> admin can't be contacted, no one can even ask if they would like someone
> to take over for them for a while.
>
> For a stand in competition, check the news://irtc.stills where there is
> talk of another website that should keep us busy for the time being.


contacted for several months, you would be keenly aware how the situation
affects other people. You SHOULD be expecting others to take over, at least
temporarily.


almost FIVE months and THREE rounds of silence. And this happening on top of
repeated delays in the past. Which you should also be aware of.

This person cannot possibly expect the whole world to go to standstill, just


If this admin cannot be contacted, then it most probably is because he

telegram or use smoke signals or whatever means he has at his disposal!

Maybe at some point the IRTC was his precious baby, but right now it seems
that this baby has been abandoned BY EVERYONE.


responsibility, you just have to let go and entrust other people with it.






aware of the implications of real life. I, myself, would never volunteer for
this kind of long term commitment, I know so well how sudden changes can
disrupt your life one way or the other.

All I want is the IRTC to be put back in action. A whole bunch of skilled
people have repeatedly volunteered to help out and take on the


People are kindly asking for a permission to put their effort in the
continuity of the IRTC, but there is NOBODY THERE to give permission.

It all boils down to a very simple reason, there is nobody in charge!



The question remains, WHAT can be done and by WHOM? Who is willing to cut
the crap and give the green light so we can all go on nurturing out
precious little baby, the IRTC?

Who started this competition originally? Who "owns" it?

If nothing is done, we are just going be kept in uncertainty forever.....

Hildur Kolbrun


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From: Bruno Cabasson
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 14 Mar 2007 08:40:01
Message: <web.45f7f9d0463ebb8ff5fba6ef0@news.povray.org>
"Hildur K." <hil### [at] 3dcafemailevery1net> wrote:
> Sabrina Kilian <ykg### [at] vtedu> wrote:
>
>
> > Imagine that IRTC was your project, and something came up in your life
> > that prevented you from even having internet access. And when you got
> > back online, you found that other people had taken over your project.
> > It's not something many people would be comfortable with. Since the IRTC
> > admin can't be contacted, no one can even ask if they would like someone
> > to take over for them for a while.
> >
> > For a stand in competition, check the news://irtc.stills where there is
> > talk of another website that should keep us busy for the time being.
>

> contacted for several months, you would be keenly aware how the situation
> affects other people. You SHOULD be expecting others to take over, at least
> temporarily.
>

> almost FIVE months and THREE rounds of silence. And this happening on top of
> repeated delays in the past. Which you should also be aware of.
>
> This person cannot possibly expect the whole world to go to standstill, just

>
> If this admin cannot be contacted, then it most probably is because he

> telegram or use smoke signals or whatever means he has at his disposal!
>
> Maybe at some point the IRTC was his precious baby, but right now it seems
> that this baby has been abandoned BY EVERYONE.
>

> responsibility, you just have to let go and entrust other people with it.
>



>

> aware of the implications of real life. I, myself, would never volunteer for
> this kind of long term commitment, I know so well how sudden changes can
> disrupt your life one way or the other.
>
> All I want is the IRTC to be put back in action. A whole bunch of skilled
> people have repeatedly volunteered to help out and take on the

>
> People are kindly asking for a permission to put their effort in the
> continuity of the IRTC, but there is NOBODY THERE to give permission.
>
> It all boils down to a very simple reason, there is nobody in charge!
>

>
> The question remains, WHAT can be done and by WHOM? Who is willing to cut
> the crap and give the green light so we can all go on nurturing out
> precious little baby, the IRTC?
>
> Who started this competition originally? Who "owns" it?
>
> If nothing is done, we are just going be kept in uncertainty forever.....
>
> Hildur Kolbrun

In Sabrina's and Hildur's points of view we have the core of the problem: is
it long enough for us to take over the IRTC?

case 1: no. We can give a little longer the benefit of doubt, and give the
        admins  a chance to explain what happened. Why would reasonable
        people (as I think they could be) disappear so suddenly without
        good reason? We have a subject to occupy us for the next 6 weeks ...

case 2: yes. We consider the situation has lasted already too long, and we
        must act now. Whatever can be the reason of the admins'
        (non-) behaviour, we give ourselves the right to set up any
        competition we want, with any form, with anybody who agrees
        with this. People here have already spent time for the new
        competition.

(Question: What if Steve and other kind volunteers spend a lot more time
setting up the site the competition in a rush AND the IRTC admins are back
next month? What is the probability of this event? What about the notions
of 'right', 'ownership' and 'respect'?)

Today, my opinion is that we can 'wait' until end of April (Pseudo-IRTC
'Before and After' round), but prepare for an eventual new competition,
with a relatively smooth transition. Every day makes the probabilty of a
reply from the admins tend to zero. This would allow volunteers (thanks to
them) not to have too much pressure on them, with all the community staring
at them and awaiting them to finish.

So, no rush for preparing the new IRTC until end of April, just make it
feasible, but 'prepare' the future. If no news at this date, then we'll
consider the old IRTC definitively dead for us, whatever happens with the
admins after that, and we (Steve ...) have two extra months to make the new
competition work fine.

    Bruno


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 14 Mar 2007 11:22:40
Message: <pan.2007.03.14.16.21.43.675104@nospam.com>
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:32:59 -0500, Hildur K. wrote:

> This person cannot possibly expect the whole world to go to standstill,


Yes, of course - because if they've ended up in hospital or had a serious
family emergency, their *first* thought should be IRTC, not the health and
well-being of a loved one or perhaps that they're in a coma or something.

Not that I know any of this to be true for the person in question, my
point is let's try to have some perspective here - since we don't know
the cause, let's not assume that IRTC should be their first priority.

Jim


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From: Sabrina Kilian
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 14 Mar 2007 16:50:37
Message: <45f86e2d@news.povray.org>
Hildur K. wrote:
> The question remains, WHAT can be done and by WHOM? Who is willing to cut
> the crap and give the green light so we can all go on nurturing out
> precious little baby, the IRTC?
> 
> Who started this competition originally? Who "owns" it?
> 
> If nothing is done, we are just going be kept in uncertainty forever.....
> 
> Hildur Kolbrun
> 
> 
> 

I was trying to avoid that whole train of thought, because it can't be
clear. Otherwise the POV-Ray team would have fixed things already. If
the competition is 'owned' by the POV-Ray team, then it would be an easy
fix to appoint a temporary admin and keep the web page as is. Since that
hasn't been done, and I'm not going to assume they just didn't think of
something that simple, the real situation must be more complicated.

It is my understanding that the POV-Ray team provides the webspace.
That's it. They don't 'own' the competition, so they can not transfer
the admin role to someone else. If they can not contact any of the
previous 'owners' then there isn't really anything they can do about it.
Even if they could contact someone who has since given up the project to
someone else, what right or capability do they have to give 'ownership'
to a new person?


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From: Hildur K 
Subject: Re: IRTC Status
Date: 14 Mar 2007 19:20:01
Message: <web.45f890da463ebb8f98f193370@news.povray.org>
Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:32:59 -0500, Hildur K. wrote:
>
> > This person cannot possibly expect the whole world to go to standstill,

>
> Yes, of course - because if they've ended up in hospital or had a serious
> family emergency, their *first* thought should be IRTC, not the health and
> well-being of a loved one or perhaps that they're in a coma or something.
>
> Not that I know any of this to be true for the person in question, my
> point is let's try to have some perspective here - since we don't know
> the cause, let's not assume that IRTC should be their first priority.
>
> Jim



guesswork based on fantasy. What happened is none of our business, unless
this person wants to share it with us, of course.

According to the sparse facts we know for sure, nothing happened, except
this guy moved to a remote place. For some unknown reason he decided to cut
off from this community without preparation. Nobody to take over. No plan B.
 We know this because he said he would be out of reach for some time. He


The whole structure around the IRTC seems very obscure. Is it possible for
an admin to simply disappear and take the competition with him??? And if he
really ended up in a coma for the rest of his life, then no IRTC??

In the past I never thought that the IRTC was run by one person only. And I
always thought there was a connection with the POV team. I certainly never
thought that this particular person, the admin, "owned" the competition.
How did that happen? Who "owned" it before?

Hildur


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