On 5/9/2010 12:02 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> I was referring more like fiction books, religious books, etc.
>
> Yeah. Like I said, I read Darwin's Black Box, there some guy claims that
> since the molecular biology of the cell is really complicated, this
> *proves* that it was designed by an intelligent being, and this is a
> really exciting scientific discovery that we should all be looking into.
> And I'm sitting there reading this book thinking "OMG, WTF???!"
>
Most people put it in either the humor, or religion, section. Behe is a 
complete hack, and its been pointed out, multiple times, that a) for a 
mathematician, he seems to have a damn poor grasp of how to apply math 
to a problem, and b) he is flat out confused, to the point of being like 
a rube watching a magician pull a penny out of his ear, when looking at 
actual examples in nature, or even *simple* computer simulations, that 
rip his claims about what is possible, and why, and what that *must* 
mean, to shreds.

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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On Sun, 09 May 2010 10:32:45 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Unfortunately, right after you learn it, you have to question the
>>> validity of the source...
>> 
>> Actually, the people who learn the best do this all the time,
>> regardless of the source....
> 
> Sure. But if you read something in a book, there is a high probability
> that it has some basis in fact. If you read something off da intertubes,
> it could be utter nonesense.

You haven't read some of the textbooks that are in the US educational 
system.  Fair amount of nonsense in there, put in by religious nutjobs 
who want public schools to teach their particular brand of religion.

> Of course, today even books can't always be considered reliable. The
> last book I read was called Darwin's Black Box...

It's always been the case that books couldn't be considered reliable.  
Just read any history book and see if it tells *both* sides (history 
books are typically written by the winners, not the losers).

Jim

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Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> Depends on the book, I think. Scholastic textbook? Maybe.
>>
>  From which state? 

That's why I said "maybe." :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
    you literally shooting yourself in the foot.

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>> Sure. But if you read something in a book, there is a high probability
>> that it has some basis in fact. If you read something off da intertubes,
>> it could be utter nonesense.
> 
> You haven't read some of the textbooks that are in the US educational 
> system.  Fair amount of nonsense in there, put in by religious nutjobs 
> who want public schools to teach their particular brand of religion.

OK, that's quite worrying.

Then again, I always thought the Americans were crazy. One time I 
stumbled across some sex education material from the USA and I was like 
"OMG, WTF? Are you *kidding* me?! Who wrote this? In which century?"

>> Of course, today even books can't always be considered reliable. The
>> last book I read was called Darwin's Black Box...
> 
> It's always been the case that books couldn't be considered reliable.  
> Just read any history book and see if it tells *both* sides (history 
> books are typically written by the winners, not the losers).

I believe the quotation you're searching for is "history is written by 
the victors".

I'd say that most history I've read is pretty accurate - but it would be 
more truthful to say that most history I've read is so mind-numbingly 
boring that I couldn't actually give a **** whether it's accurate or 
not. ;-)

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>> Yeah. Like I said, I read Darwin's Black Box, there some guy claims that
>> since the molecular biology of the cell is really complicated, this
>> *proves* that it was designed by an intelligent being, and this is a
>> really exciting scientific discovery that we should all be looking into.
>> And I'm sitting there reading this book thinking "OMG, WTF???!"
>>
> Most people put it in either the humor, or religion, section. Behe is a 
> complete hack.

I remember just sitting there in utter astonishment that somebody could 
actually write this stuff and expect to be taken seriously. Or that 
anybody would be willing to print it, for that matter. WTF?

The most worrying part is that this guy is apparently a scientist. He 
actually works for somebody studying molecular biology. (Or so he 
claims. In retrospect, I have to wonder if it's actually true...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On 5/10/2010 10:10 AM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Yeah. Like I said, I read Darwin's Black Box, there some guy claims that
>>> since the molecular biology of the cell is really complicated, this
>>> *proves* that it was designed by an intelligent being, and this is a
>>> really exciting scientific discovery that we should all be looking into.
>>> And I'm sitting there reading this book thinking "OMG, WTF???!"
>>>
>> Most people put it in either the humor, or religion, section. Behe is
>> a complete hack.
>
> I remember just sitting there in utter astonishment that somebody could
> actually write this stuff and expect to be taken seriously. Or that
> anybody would be willing to print it, for that matter. WTF?
>
> The most worrying part is that this guy is apparently a scientist. He
> actually works for somebody studying molecular biology. (Or so he
> claims. In retrospect, I have to wonder if it's actually true...)
>
No. He is a mathematician, and a bad one, who works for some hack at the 
Discovery Institute, who probably got *his* science degree from some 
place like Liberty University, or the like. Alternatively, it might have 
been from a legitimate institution, but they where one of the clowns 
that managed to put out a final thesis that is 100% based on what they 
learned in class, thus appearing to understand the material, while, 
never the less, rejecting 100% of the conclusions, including the ones 
they put in their own final paper. This has, unfortunately, happened a 
few times in recent years...

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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On 5/10/2010 1:06 AM, Invisible wrote:
> I believe the quotation you're searching for is "history is written by
> the victors".
>
> I'd say that most history I've read is pretty accurate - but it would be
> more truthful to say that most history I've read is so mind-numbingly
> boring that I couldn't actually give a **** whether it's accurate or
> not. ;-)
There is that too. But, mostly, in the US, if you print *facts* about 
what the other side saw happen to them, or what took place that wasn't 
mentioned in dear old granddad's, or just dad's history books, its 
"revisionism". Removing say.. Thomas Jefferson from history books, to 
replace him with St. Thomas Aquinas, on the other hand, is seen as 
"fixing" a deficit in US history, and upholding its "Christian" 
heritage... >>head -> desk<<

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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On Mon, 10 May 2010 09:06:42 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Sure. But if you read something in a book, there is a high probability
>>> that it has some basis in fact. If you read something off da
>>> intertubes, it could be utter nonesense.
>> 
>> You haven't read some of the textbooks that are in the US educational
>> system.  Fair amount of nonsense in there, put in by religious nutjobs
>> who want public schools to teach their particular brand of religion.
> 
> OK, that's quite worrying.

You're telling me.  I went to public school here. ;-)

> Then again, I always thought the Americans were crazy. One time I
> stumbled across some sex education material from the USA and I was like
> "OMG, WTF? Are you *kidding* me?! Who wrote this? In which century?"

LOL - but yes, that is one area in particular where some areas are in the 
dark ages when it comes to education.

>>> Of course, today even books can't always be considered reliable. The
>>> last book I read was called Darwin's Black Box...
>> 
>> It's always been the case that books couldn't be considered reliable.
>> Just read any history book and see if it tells *both* sides (history
>> books are typically written by the winners, not the losers).
> 
> I believe the quotation you're searching for is "history is written by
> the victors".

I wasn't actually searching for a quotation.

> I'd say that most history I've read is pretty accurate - but it would be
> more truthful to say that most history I've read is so mind-numbingly
> boring that I couldn't actually give a **** whether it's accurate or
> not. ;-)

Well, I think the native Americans might have a slightly different view 
on the accuracy of American History vis-a-vis the battles they fought 
against the colonists.

Jim

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On 05/09/10 19:29, Jim Henderson wrote:
> It's always been the case that books couldn't be considered reliable.  
> Just read any history book and see if it tells *both* sides (history 
> books are typically written by the winners, not the losers).

	Only two sides?

-- 
Brain damage is all in your head -- Karl Lehenbauer

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On Mon, 10 May 2010 20:08:30 -0700, Neeum Zawan wrote:

> On 05/09/10 19:29, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> It's always been the case that books couldn't be considered reliable.
>> Just read any history book and see if it tells *both* sides (history
>> books are typically written by the winners, not the losers).
> 
> 	Only two sides?

Fair point, but underscores the point I was making. :-)

Jim

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