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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> That could have been better. Both the story and design was very nice and
> it had a few neat little platformng innovations such as the footprints
> showing where you'd land, but it just lacked something IDK.
Exactly my feelings. It would be lame without the tie-ins to the book. Sort
of like pron music without the porn to go with it.
> I've got SS2 to run on XP and added in the SHTUP high-def texture patch
> without a problem if you've got Thief to run so should SS2.
Maybe I'll give it a try. I have three games already I've started and I
can't get in spired to play any of them.
> To be fair you are stuck on a space-station or space-ship in SS1 and SS2
> respectively so gray is the theme ;-)
I understand why. The right answer is to be clever.
Myst had a very small amount of data space available for the way it was
built. So what do they do? They put you on an island, where there's a
natural barrier preventing you from wandering, rather than just a "you can't
go that way" message. None of this Undying "Jammed!" stuff.
> unlike some games I didn't get overtly lost in SS2.
I *still* get lost in Thief. :-) Even Bafford's Manor is pretty baffling
sometimes.
>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
>> bit by Portal.
>
> Conceptually perhaps,
That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than anything.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> >> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
> >> bit by Portal.
> >
> > Conceptually perhaps,
> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than anything.
At least if you turn the red hints off.
I didn't really understand the idea of those hints. When I started playing
the game, I turned them off (I knew about them from the demo) because I felt
that they were completely unnecessary and only ruined one of the assets of
such a game: Having to find the correct path, rather than it being shown you
right on your face.
Even without the hints it wasn't mostly very difficult to guess where to go
next. I can only assume that with the hints it would have been ridiculously
easy.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
>>>> bit by Portal.
>>> Conceptually perhaps,
>
>> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than anything.
>
> At least if you turn the red hints off.
Yes. I only played the demo, so I guess that hadn't really occurred to me.
It's good to hear you can turn the hints off.
I expect *I* would need them on for the first level or two, just to learn
what can and can't be done. Otherwise, I'd try four times to jump to
someplace, decide it's not the right way, and only after much frustration
have to go back to see it was right after all and I just wasn't jumping
straight. :-)
I take it then that there is, in general, only one usable path to your goal?
If so, that's kind of disappointing. It seems like it would be easy to make
two or three ways past each problem, leading to much greater replayability.
That's one of the things that made Thief and Deus Ex and all so fun.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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On 2/10/2009 8:55 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> Annoyingly on Very Hard you get 150% of the experience for killing
> someone; although they're much tougher this means I've hit level 20
> already. I can still get killed (Talon Company especially are unpleasant
> in packs), but it means Radscorpions and the like are just a nuisance
> and waste of ammo; heck I'm using the Shishkebab and the Deathclaw
> Gauntlet on them to save ammo.
You know, I played as a completely good character, and I was so strapped
for cash that I never did get around to buying plans for custom weapons
(so I never made any of them).
--
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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And lo On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:16:18 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> I've got SS2 to run on XP and added in the SHTUP high-def texture patch
>> without a problem if you've got Thief to run so should SS2.
>
> Maybe I'll give it a try. I have three games already I've started and I
> can't get in spired to play any of them.
It's also nice to be able to pick your career path, helps replayability.
>> To be fair you are stuck on a space-station or space-ship in SS1 and
>> SS2 respectively so gray is the theme ;-)
>
> I understand why. The right answer is to be clever.
>
> Myst had a very small amount of data space available for the way it was
> built. So what do they do? They put you on an island, where there's a
> natural barrier preventing you from wandering, rather than just a "you
> can't go that way" message. None of this Undying "Jammed!" stuff.
Oh gods they've still got that in Fallout3. I came out of a building near
the edge of the 'world' and got ambushed; backed off, chucked a grenade
and tried to run between two escarpments and came to an abrupt halt at an
invisble wall.
>> unlike some games I didn't get overtly lost in SS2.
>
> I *still* get lost in Thief. :-) Even Bafford's Manor is pretty baffling
> sometimes.
Ditto, I found it difficult to orientate myself at time with all the same
door types, carpets, cave walls etc. SS2 did well with signs and differing
'feels'; I still had to call up the map on occasion, but I generally had
an idea where I was. Again got to say that's something very nice with the
high draw distance in Fallout3 compared to Oblivion. Though the big
central city had a huge tower, the forests cut down the view, in F3 I can
see Tenpenny Tower or the Washington Monument and just know where I am as
I trapse along.
>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired a
>>> bit by Portal.
>> Conceptually perhaps,
>
> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than
> anything.
Which as I said they then screwed up by adding the gun-toters.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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And lo On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:27:17 -0000, Chambers
<ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> did spake thusly:
> On 2/10/2009 8:55 AM, Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> Annoyingly on Very Hard you get 150% of the experience for killing
>> someone; although they're much tougher this means I've hit level 20
>> already. I can still get killed (Talon Company especially are unpleasant
>> in packs), but it means Radscorpions and the like are just a nuisance
>> and waste of ammo; heck I'm using the Shishkebab and the Deathclaw
>> Gauntlet on them to save ammo.
>
> You know, I played as a completely good character, and I was so strapped
> for cash that I never did get around to buying plans for custom weapons
> (so I never made any of them).
There were three of four schematics for each weapon and most were either
sat on a desk or given as a quest reward. I recall the bottlecap mine was
a reward from Moira for Minefield, the Shishkebab from Vince for Blood
Ties, and the Dart Gun from Hannibal for Head of State. Damn I don't know
how you could play without the Dart Gun, particularly at harder
difficulties; that was my default weapon - totally silent so no real
problem if you miss, cripples most creatures legs so they can't chase you
(essential for the Deathclaws), and poisons them over time. Heck I've shot
a Raider and watched his health drop as he staggered around, then when he
keeled over dead watched other Raiders come out of cover to check his body
and shot them too.
Money-wise I never had a problem after I'd cleaned out the Super-Duper
Mart of everything including tin cans, I just filled my pockets and dumped
everything in one of the Nuka-Cola machines outside repeated until the
store was empty then fast-travelled back and forth between there and
Megaton and sold everything to either Moira, Gob, or the Doc. Anything
left over when they'd run out of money I dumped in a locker in my house.
If you don't want the running you can do the same in Megaton there's a ton
of stuff just lying around. After that I just picked up items for weapon
building or low weight to high-value items such as cartons of cigarettes
(2:50) or vodka (1:20). Sugar Bombs can be sold at the Seneca station
(1:15/30) and Pre-war books at Arlington Library (1:100). Apparently there
are 111 of the later so that's 11,100 potential caps.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> It's also nice to be able to pick your career path, helps replayability.
Career path? You mean like what skills you learn and what upgrades you pick?
Yeah, that's good too. I see that in Deus Ex and Bioshock too.
Thief, it's mostly a matter of "I wonder if I can do it this way..." more
than "let's start over and play it differently." Altho you can try it like
"let's go thru and not ever get seen by anyone ever", or "let's do it and
inflict no damage anywhere" (which is a heck of a lot harder).
> halt at an invisble wall.
Yeah, exactly the wrong answer.
Like Gorden Frohman said, "A locked door? He has a rocket launcher!"
> Ditto, I found it difficult to orientate myself at time with all the
> same door types, carpets, cave walls etc.
I never got lost in the caves or outdoors. Just in the buildings, mostly the
square ones. The prison at least had signposts.
> view, in F3 I can see Tenpenny Tower or the Washington Monument and just
> know where I am as I trapse along.
In Thief3, Garret even says you can see the clocktower from anywhere in the
city and it makes a great landmark, but you can stand 30 feet away and not
be able to figure out that thing's the clocktower. :-)
>>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired
>>>> a bit by Portal.
>>> Conceptually perhaps,
>>
>> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than
>> anything.
>
> Which as I said they then screwed up by adding the gun-toters.
Yeah, I saw that. Well, I guess they figured it needed the action or
something. Maybe some day when it's in the $5 bin I'll buy it. I like
getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just to see them.
I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for Mirror's Edge, tho.
Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite cheap
enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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And lo On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:55:06 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> It's also nice to be able to pick your career path, helps replayability.
>
> Career path? You mean like what skills you learn and what upgrades you
> pick?
From memory you start with a choice of Army, Navy, Special (Psi) and then
choice from nine year-long missions (arranged 3 by 3) that'll boost
certain stats. After that you get rewards that you can use at stations to
boost your stats again.
> Yeah, that's good too. I see that in Deus Ex and Bioshock too.
Pretty much same thing with a different name
> Thief, it's mostly a matter of "I wonder if I can do it this way..."
> more than "let's start over and play it differently." Altho you can
> try it like "let's go thru and not ever get seen by anyone ever", or
> "let's do it and inflict no damage anywhere" (which is a heck of a lot
> harder).
Yeah in the other three games play style is largely dictated by stats,
Thief just sets the stats and says "Do what you can with them"
>> halt at an invisble wall.
>
> Yeah, exactly the wrong answer.
And what with the abundence of natural formations that could stop you a
very strange decision.
> Like Gorden Frohman said, "A locked door? He has a rocket launcher!"
Drives me mad, they tried to solve it in Red Faction, but even then you
had solid doors set in corridors you couldn't dent. Saying that I do
recall one blast door in a cavern I got around with using explosives. Be
interesting to see what they do in RF3.
>> Ditto, I found it difficult to orientate myself at time with all the
>> same door types, carpets, cave walls etc.
>
> I never got lost in the caves or outdoors. Just in the buildings, mostly
> the square ones. The prison at least had signposts.
>
>> view, in F3 I can see Tenpenny Tower or the Washington Monument and
>> just know where I am as I trapse along.
>
> In Thief3, Garret even says you can see the clocktower from anywhere in
> the city and it makes a great landmark, but you can stand 30 feet away
> and not be able to figure out that thing's the clocktower. :-)
Haven't played T3, I heard they nerfed it for the Xbox and at the time my
PC was woefully unpowered for it. In terms of getting lost I think the key
is to have a variety of 'keypoints' you can recognise without disturbing
the aesthetic. That was one of the reasons I got lost in Oblivion "I'm in
a forest" until I get to higher ground or break through the trees and see
a landmark I'm lost - realistic I suppose, but annoying. Yet even in the
subway tunnels in F3 I'd backtrack to a junction and know I'd already been
down that side because of that embeded barrel, or the broken gas pipe, or
the combination of other little things.
>>>>> And a novel way of doing things. Perhaps Mirror's Edge was inspired
>>>>> a bit by Portal.
>>>> Conceptually perhaps,
>>>
>>> That's what I meant, yes. More a "puzzle of how to get there" than
>>> anything.
>> Which as I said they then screwed up by adding the gun-toters.
>
> Yeah, I saw that. Well, I guess they figured it needed the action or
> something.
Which they could have gotten by giving you a time limit. You're supposed
to be a courier - get from A to B in X then get trophies for getting there
under a set time. The guns just messed it up.
> Maybe some day when it's in the $5 bin I'll buy it.
Took a rapid drop to the £20 mark here on PS3.
> I like getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just to
> see them. I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for Mirror's
> Edge, tho.
I don't know if it's the development engine or cycle, but I'm seeing a lot
less cheats on the consoles. Kind of good in that without precautions
you'd have cheaters knocking down the trophies/achievements, kind of bad
in that yes it is fun to go through it as a cathetic release of
invulnerability.
> Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite
> cheap enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
Which one?
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Phil Cook v2 wrote:
> the key is to have a variety of 'keypoints' you can recognise without
> disturbing the aesthetic.
Oh, it's not hard to do. Bafford's Manor is just all symmetric and stuff,
above and below ground. Once you start getting some stairs that lead up to a
dead end and some that lead down to the other side, you can easily get
turned around. Especially if you're trying to loot the whole place.
There are equally sprawling mansions you nevertheless get lost in even tho
places don't look the same, and there are places where it all looks the same
and you don't really get lost. I'm not real sure how one works the latter,
but things like the Lost City have maybe 3 textures for the whole level and
it's still easy to avoid getting lost, especially in T2.
Have you tried T2X, btw? Very well done.
>> I like getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just
>> to see them. I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for
>> Mirror's Edge, tho.
>
> I don't know if it's the development engine or cycle, but I'm seeing a
> lot less cheats on the consoles.
I mean, it's kind of hard to cheat the "falling off buildings" kind of game.
:-)
> Kind of good in that without
> precautions you'd have cheaters knocking down the trophies/achievements,
You don't award achievements on any game where god mode is turned on, is
all. :-) That's an old trick. (Kind of like how the multiplayer games won't
let you turn on god mode, even back in the Q2 days.)
>> Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite
>> cheap enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
>
> Which one?
Which one what? Which set? They're all beautiful. (Visually speaking, I
mean. No idea about the actual gameplay.)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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And lo On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:06:25 -0000, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
did spake thusly:
> Phil Cook v2 wrote:
>> the key is to have a variety of 'keypoints' you can recognise without
>> disturbing the aesthetic.
>
> Oh, it's not hard to do. Bafford's Manor is just all symmetric and
> stuff, above and below ground. Once you start getting some stairs that
> lead up to a dead end and some that lead down to the other side, you can
> easily get turned around. Especially if you're trying to loot the whole
> place.
>
> There are equally sprawling mansions you nevertheless get lost in even
> tho places don't look the same, and there are places where it all looks
> the same and you don't really get lost. I'm not real sure how one works
> the latter, but things like the Lost City have maybe 3 textures for the
> whole level and it's still easy to avoid getting lost, especially in T2.
Well as I said objects and positions pay a part, and as you say the manor
was symmetrical and if I recall the theatre was a pain.
Yesterday morning I was creeping through Roosevelt Academy in F3 -
corridors, side-rooms, and lockers; no problem. Even on the third floor I
could relate my position thanks to the collapsed floors/ceilings that
allowed me to spot a landmark above or below me.
> Have you tried T2X, btw? Very well done.
I have and it was, though it was a while ago - recall I dug out my notes
to give you a hand.
>>> I like getting games like that then going thru them on god mode, just
>>> to see them. I don't imagine there's an effective god mode for
>>> Mirror's Edge, tho.
>> I don't know if it's the development engine or cycle, but I'm seeing a
>> lot less cheats on the consoles.
>
> I mean, it's kind of hard to cheat the "falling off buildings" kind of
> game. :-)
Heh indeed though a 'not getting shot' or 'turn off enemy AI' would be
nice.
>> Kind of good in that without precautions you'd have cheaters knocking
>> down the trophies/achievements,
>
> You don't award achievements on any game where god mode is turned on, is
> all. :-) That's an old trick. (Kind of like how the multiplayer games
> won't let you turn on god mode, even back in the Q2 days.
Turn on god mode; battle your way to the achievement point; turn off god
mode; you'd have to store a 'god mode' bit in both the game and save file.
So I mean it's possible, just hassle.
>>> Serious Sam is one I'd like to go thru on God mode, but it's not quite
>>> cheap enough yet. Talk about beautiful sets...
>> Which one?
>
> Which one what? Which set? They're all beautiful. (Visually speaking, I
> mean. No idea about the actual gameplay.)
I meant which Serious Sam?
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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