On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:58:52 -0400, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> It's happened before, it'll happen again. How many old radio shows were
> sponsored by certain products, and found creative ways to work those
> into the show? It went away for a while, because people pay for cable,
> but it's come back because there is money to be made there.

Sure, but that doesn't mean I have to *like* it....or watch shows that do 
that, for that matter.

> Geez, Eureka, though . . . I should be surprised about it but I'm not.
> The adverts for it, over the summer, were funny. Until they switched
> from 'buy this product that is actually impossible' to 'buy this actual
> product that we claim is impossible.' I just can't imagine how a top
> secret government facility can explain having such mundane sponsors who
> most likely lack proper clearance.

Actually, they did sorta work it into the story.  That bit could be 
interesting.

> But, it's SciFi channel. They hate funding good shows, and would
> obviously rather throw money away on weekly B movies. As evidence, see
> every show they've only ever shown just one season of, showing Eureka
> out of order, canning FarScape, canceling SG-1 at the episode 200 wrap
> party, and showing last season's Heroes and Lost.

Well, some of those decisions made some sense; SG-1 was partly writer's 
fatigue, partly the cast's fatigue (esp. Michael Shanks, I think), and 
they'd done a lot farther beyond it; my wife and I used to say "remember 
when this show was about the *STAR* *GATE*?" - never a good sign.  
Atlantis isn't bad, but I liked the first seasons of SG-1 best.

Eureka out of order was definitely a problem - I know Colin Ferguson 
wasn't happy about it, because he wrote about that.

BSG is the one show there that I think has done *really* well.

But also don't forget that part of the recent problems with the shows in 
the US in general was the writer's strike.  That's why some things had 
earlier seasons shown this year.

One of the writers for Eureka cited the writer's strike as one reason why 
they needed corporate sponsorship; they had to cut the number of episodes 
down, but still had to pay the cast & crew the contracted wages.  They 
had to do something, but at least that writer does know - and understands 
why - some fans are going to be VERY upset about it.  So at least they're 
aware of it, and I'm hoping they can keep it pretty light (and poke fun 
at themselves for it) and do it just the one season and then get back to 
"business as usual" next season.

Jim

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And lo on Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:29:08 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:54:03 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> And lo on Wed, 13 Aug 2008 05:11:43 +0100, Jim Henderson
>> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
>>
>> The latest trick on commercial channels here is to run two programmes
>> back to back with only a short trailer-type ad separating them and then
>> chuck in the ad break early. Better yet the first programme overruns
>> slightly so the next one starts 1 minute late whereas the BBC seem to be
>> finishing programmes slightly earlier so the next one starts 1 minute
>> before it's scheduled.
>
> Yeah, I've seen that as well - end up having to adjust the recording
> times to start 1 min early and end 1 min late.  Which means if I've got
> three programmes set to record in a 2 hour period (one ending and two
> starting, for example - we've a dual tuner DVR), something's going to get
> clipped.

Should have been solved by now. We had PDC back in the VCR days, the  
broadcaster would send a signal at the end/start of a broadcast and the  
recorder would be looking for this signal at about the time it should be  
starting. Failed miserably as some broadcasters didn't use it and some  
misused it (you'd get the 60-second news blip instead of the programme).  
With EPG's it should all be a done deal, but for the last few weeks it's  
been showing Newsnight when Never Mind the Buzzcocks has been broadcast  
unless I reset the EPG and one programme I'm regularly recording starts 15  
minutes before its scheduled.

>>> All that money that goes into advertising could be much better spent
>>> making a product that I want to buy, improving the service that goes
>>> with the product, or making a good product better.
>>
>> Pfft everyone knows it's marketing that sells products, not having the
>> best or even just a good product.
>
> Oh, right, I forgot - because they wouldn't do that if it wasn't
> effective.  Stupid me - it's too bad I'm not willing to be a sheep....

Life is so much easier when you are :-P

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:29:52 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:40:36 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> are good, solid, reliable, and that actually work.
>>
>> I remember seeing a book in the store about ten ways how to make your
>> brand more popular. The methods were things like "don't let someone sell
>> both coke *and* pepsi", and "if they sell coke make them sell sprite
>> also" and "end every ad with a picture of your brand" and such.
>
> Was "make it *better* than the competition" in there anywhere?

I guess that's covered by the "don't let someone sell both coke *and*  
pepsi". You don't need to make a better product if you don't present the  
consumer with a choice.

As an example my mother often complains she can't pick up a certain brand  
of sauce at her main shop supermarket and has to go elsewhere; I'm running  
an internal bet as to how long it'll be before she either starts doing the  
main shop in this other store or ends up buying a different brand.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:48:40 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> Here we still fill up with fuel then pay. Some places do have card facilities at
>> the pumps though. "Pre-pay", it is a terrible world :(
>
>Sadly, one pump-and-run can take the profit of an entire week from the 
>gas station.
>

Ah! I forgot it's New York, New York so tough they named it twice. In case
someone stole it. Here we take photographs of the car number plate and threaten
to tell their mothers :)

>> My pet peeve is people who pay for "small change" shopping with a card. But then
>> I'm getting old and cantankerous ;)
>
>I get annoyed at people who pay with a personal check for that sort of 
>stuff, myself. Altho I understand that's usually not their own fault.

I probably annoy the rest of the queue by getting rid of all my small change in
shops. Well it annoys my wife.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:08:45 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:29:52 +0100, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
>
>> Was "make it *better* than the competition" in there anywhere?
> 
> I guess that's covered by the "don't let someone sell both coke *and*
> pepsi". You don't need to make a better product if you don't present the
> consumer with a choice.

Heh, well, I know for many of the fast food chains, they don't have a 
choice, because they're actually owned by Pepsico or Coca-Cola.  I used 
to work for a company that did outsourced benefits management (for both 
companies, oddly enough), and seeing the brands that came in with those 
agreements was surprising.

> As an example my mother often complains she can't pick up a certain
> brand of sauce at her main shop supermarket and has to go elsewhere; I'm
> running an internal bet as to how long it'll be before she either starts
> doing the main shop in this other store or ends up buying a different
> brand.

That'd be an interesting thing to look at....

Jim

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On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:01:19 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:

> And lo on Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:29:08 +0100, Jim Henderson
> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
>> Yeah, I've seen that as well - end up having to adjust the recording
>> times to start 1 min early and end 1 min late.  Which means if I've got
>> three programmes set to record in a 2 hour period (one ending and two
>> starting, for example - we've a dual tuner DVR), something's going to
>> get clipped.
> 
> Should have been solved by now. We had PDC back in the VCR days, the
> broadcaster would send a signal at the end/start of a broadcast and the
> recorder would be looking for this signal at about the time it should be
> starting. Failed miserably as some broadcasters didn't use it and some
> misused it (you'd get the 60-second news blip instead of the programme).
> With EPG's it should all be a done deal, but for the last few weeks it's
> been showing Newsnight when Never Mind the Buzzcocks has been broadcast
> unless I reset the EPG and one programme I'm regularly recording starts
> 15 minutes before its scheduled.

I wish they'd do that - and a better job of everyone synchronizing their 
clocks, too.  Shows that say they start at, say, 9:00 on some channels 
start as much as 5 minutes later....My DVR used to have a bug (since 
fixed, but it was there for a LONG time) where if you adjusted the start/
end times, it would occasionally lock up between 2 and 4 AM.  Actual 
documented bug in the software.  Took almost 2 years for them to fix it.

>>>> All that money that goes into advertising could be much better spent
>>>> making a product that I want to buy, improving the service that goes
>>>> with the product, or making a good product better.
>>>
>>> Pfft everyone knows it's marketing that sells products, not having the
>>> best or even just a good product.
>>
>> Oh, right, I forgot - because they wouldn't do that if it wasn't
>> effective.  Stupid me - it's too bad I'm not willing to be a sheep....
> 
> Life is so much easier when you are :-P

So I've heard, but I'm just not willing. ;-)

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I wish they'd do that - and a better job of everyone synchronizing their 
> clocks, too.

Nowadays, with feeds being synched between different providers (as in, 
local weather stuck into the 45-second slot allocated in the 
country-wide news feed) I find TV stations much more on-the-ball about 
being on time.  Of course, some shows still run over, and sometimes the 
schedule changes, but I've found usually not on the order of minutes. At 
least around here.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:11:47 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I wish they'd do that - and a better job of everyone synchronizing
>> their clocks, too.
> 
> Nowadays, with feeds being synched between different providers (as in,
> local weather stuck into the 45-second slot allocated in the
> country-wide news feed) I find TV stations much more on-the-ball about
> being on time.  Of course, some shows still run over, and sometimes the
> schedule changes, but I've found usually not on the order of minutes. At
> least around here.

Yeah, out here, Comcast just doesn't seem to do a good job of having the 
stuff synchronized to the correct time; the cable-only channels are the 
worst, I've found.  Part of it is that "one-minute overlap" they've 
started doing, but part of it is just bad timekeeping.

The local PBS station is also quite bad in that regard.

Jim

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Darren New wrote:
> St. wrote:
>>   So what's a 'customer benefit' card other than what you've already 
>> explained?
> 
> Think of it as "automatic coupons". If you present the card, you get X% 
> off from various products.  Of course, the card is tied to your identity 
> or at least a pseudo-identity, so they can tell that people who buy Y 
> also buy Z a lot.
> 
> I like the coupons on the back of the receipts better, myself.
> 

Again, I don't mind them, since I like smart product placement :)

...Chambers

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And lo on Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:06:25 +0100, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:01:19 +0100, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> And lo on Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:29:08 +0100, Jim Henderson
>> <nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:
>>> Yeah, I've seen that as well - end up having to adjust the recording
>>> times to start 1 min early and end 1 min late.  Which means if I've got
>>> three programmes set to record in a 2 hour period (one ending and two
>>> starting, for example - we've a dual tuner DVR), something's going to
>>> get clipped.
>>
>> Should have been solved by now. We had PDC back in the VCR days, the
>> broadcaster would send a signal at the end/start of a broadcast and the
>> recorder would be looking for this signal at about the time it should be
>> starting. Failed miserably as some broadcasters didn't use it and some
>> misused it (you'd get the 60-second news blip instead of the programme).
>> With EPG's it should all be a done deal, but for the last few weeks it's
>> been showing Newsnight when Never Mind the Buzzcocks has been broadcast
>> unless I reset the EPG and one programme I'm regularly recording starts
>> 15 minutes before its scheduled.
>
> I wish they'd do that - and a better job of everyone synchronizing their
> clocks, too.

The default here is BBC time.

> Shows that say they start at, say, 9:00 on some channels
> start as much as 5 minutes later

Groan just had one programme on the EPG actually scheduled to start 10  
minutes early then normal. Just for this one week mind then it goes back  
to normal.

> ....My DVR used to have a bug (since
> fixed, but it was there for a LONG time) where if you adjusted the start/
> end times, it would occasionally lock up between 2 and 4 AM.  Actual
> documented bug in the software.  Took almost 2 years for them to fix it.

Apparently one bug on mine meant that using the PiP facilty didn't free  
the time shift memory used by it when switched back to one channel. Oh and  
if I use the padding on recording it disables the series link so you  
either have to remember to
set it manually each time or set up your own repeating slot and disengage  
it from the EPG (which is what happened above)

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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