> However, one does not simply email a CV to them. This is HMG, after all! 
> You must fill in a long, complex online application form. And some of the 
> fields really aren't very clearly labelled.

And then watch out, they often interview someone who knows you, just to 
check certain things...

> Any remotely complex problems I might have solved have been solved by me 
> and me alone.

Scale back a bit on your definition of "complex" then.  How about "the most 
complex problem that you have solved with the aid of others"?  You must have 
done something where you needed to ask someone else for advice/help - or 
where you provided assistance to some other people working on a larger 
problem?

> Or should I write something about the time when I tried to build a parser 
> for my computer-aided algebra system, and ended up inventing Dijkstra's 
> shunting algorithm?

Yes, I suspect they would like that.  They are after evidence, evidence that 
you would be a useful person working for them.  Things like that show that 
even though your current job doesn't require it, you are interested enough 
in such concepts to spend time on them.

> 4. Please describe a time when you took on a task that illustrates your 
> active interest in this area of work and allowed you to develop new 
> skills.
>
> Uuuhhhh... Well I can tell you all mannar of things I've learned out of 
> pure curiosity. But things I learned because of attempting to perform a 
> specific "task"?

Same sort of thing as the previous answer would do.  But I guess it should 
try to be related to whatever job you are applying for.  I'm sure you can 
wangle something.

Post a reply to this message

> Usually only two types of people
> get hired:

Get *interviewed*, not hired ;-)

Any company with half an ounce of skill in interviewed will weed out the 
people who just made up stuff.

We had exactly that experience recently.  Some guy said he had lots of 
experience with ASIC design for graphics controllers, and working with 
different customers in Europe.  Once we started pushing him on the technical 
details it turned out he really had just been "overseeing" the design and 
not actually done anything himself.  In fact, he could have just been making 
it all up.  In the end we finally asked him this question:

"When was the last time you used an oscilloscope?"
"Never"
"OK, thanks for coming along today, we'll let you know"

I don't know why people even bother.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Gail Shaw <initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote:
>> If you want really messed up, try South Africa.
> 
>> It is illegal, forbidden by our constitution, to discriminate against anyone
>> on the basis of skin colour, gender, religion, sexual preference or
>> nationality.
>> It is a requirement of the labour law that all companies employing more than
>> 50 people, have an affirmative action employment policy, whereby jobs are
>> given by preference to 'previously disadvantaged individuals'
> 
>   It sounds a bit like the constitution of Finland: A lot of nice words
> which mean absolutely nothing in practice.
> 
>   (Unlike in the US (if I'm not mistaken), the constitution in Finland is
> not an actual law. You can't "break" the constitution. Criminal law has
> no concept of "breaking the constitution", and no sentences are ever given
> for doing something unconstitutional. Unlike in the US, constitution is not
> really something you can plead to (eg. you don't "plead the fifth" or
> anything like that here).
>   In theory the constitution limits what can be passed as law, but in
> practice many laws go against the constitution. OTOH, the constitution
> doesn't prohibit that, as its wording is basically "this is allowed unless
> prohibited by a law". Of course this is an absolute null statement.)
> 

No one 'breaks' the constitution of the USA.

All it sets out, initially, is what each part of the government is 
allowed to do and how they can accomplish it. Congress is consisted of 
these people and does this stuff in this manner, while the President is 
this person who is elected somehow and can do this other stuff.

The first 10 amendments to the constitution actually went further, and 
forbid certain kinds of laws from being created. Again, though, the 
Congress and President do not 'break' the constitution by making laws 
like that, because they simply lack the authority to. The law gets 
enforced, someone appeals, the Supreme Court rules the law 
unconstitutional, and the law goes away.*

The fun parts are the 10th amendment, that said any power not given to 
the Federal government and not forbidden to the states are reserved to 
the State, and the 14th amendment, which made everyone born in the USA a 
citizen and guaranteed them the same rights.  Why? Well, the 10th is 
skirted by calling just about anything 'interstate commerce'. Grow grain 
to feed your own farm animals? Congress can regulate that, because the 
grain you might be buying could come from other states. The other way is 
to remove federal funding from states that do not enact certain laws: 
"Do this or your tax dollars go some place else." And while the 14th 
says that "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge 
the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."** it has 
been used to push other laws on the States. Whether that's a good or bad 
thing depends on if you see the country as the USA or at the United 
States of America. It is far from clear, either way.


*that's the way it's supposed to work, anyways.
**"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the 
privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any 
State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due 
process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal 
protection of the laws."

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:38:57 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>  
did spake, saying:

> 1. Describe a time when you worked with others to solve a complex  
> problem.

"Would it be feasible to render an Iterated Function System image using a  
GPU?" equals

'An international co-operative effort to do blah for blah to solve blah.'

> 2. Please describe an example of when you delivered a high quality piece  
> of work that you were proud of.

How about all the time spent in tracking down problems, doesn't ask that  
you have to have solved them the report itself could be the high quality  
piece of work.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:38:57 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> First, I don't have any references - and they want two of 'em. I *would*
> have put my boss, but he recently left the company. I would have put our
> site manager, but he recently left too. The new management team can't
> even remember my name. No point having them for references! I might also
> have said my uni lecturers - you know, if the uni hadn't shut down as
> soon as I graduated...

So why not use the old boss and site manager?  They're not going to be 
losing you now that they're gone.  If you can get in touch with them, do 
so and ask if you can use them as references?

As they have recently left, they are probably in a better position to 
help you than anyone you currently work with.

> 1. Describe a time when you worked with others to solve a complex
> problem.
> 
> Um... OK. What do you say to this one? I mean, if you happen to work for
> a company that designs complex products and you're on the design team,
> this should be a cakewalk. But otherwise? I mean, when was the last time
> YOU solved a complex problem? (Never mind with other people.)
> 
> Suffice it to say, I can't think of a single example for this. I've
> never *met* anybody (apart from me) who knows the difference between a
> Fourier transform and a Laplace transform. Any remotely complex problems
> I might have solved have been solved by me and me alone.

They're asking about solving business problems (that's what they'll be 
most interested in).  Use the firewall example, include as much detail as 
is reasonable, but if you don't feel that that's enough, you can also 
take the opportunity to say that one of the reasons you're applying is 
because you want to stretch a bit more to reach your potential, and you 
feel your current job is keeping you from doing just that.

> 2. Please describe an example of when you delivered a high quality piece
> of work that you were proud of.
> 
> Hmm, this is hard. Usually when I deliver something, all I can think
> about is how badly it sucks and how I should have done much better...
> but maybe I can find something for this one.

Give yourself some credit for what you've done.  We've talked about this 
before.

> 3. Give an example of when you tacked an unfamiliar problem or task, and
> how you learned something new.
> 
> Do I tell them about the time I spent 2 days writing out the binomial
> expansions of powers up to 9 by longhand algebra and thereby derived a
> special case of the binomial theorum from first principles? Or should I
> write something about the time when I tried to build a parser for my
> computer-aided algebra system, and ended up inventing Dijkstra's
> shunting algorithm? Either way, I highly doubt anybody will be
> impressed. After all, reinventing obscure mathematics hardly counts as
> "solving" a "problem"...

Well, write it up and see what it looks like.  But also, as with the 
first question, they're probably more interested in business problems.  
Maybe talk about how you learned about the regulations having to do with 
audits - you probably didn't come out of Uni having any experience with 
formal government audits, but now you know the stuff pretty well.  So the 
unfamiliar task would be learning about what the audit consisted of and 
what had to be done, and then describe how you learned about what the 
requirements are.

> 4. Please describe a time when you took on a task that illustrates your
> active interest in this area of work and allowed you to develop new
> skills.
> 
> Uuuhhhh... Well I can tell you all mannar of things I've learned out of
> pure curiosity. But things I learned because of attempting to perform a
> specific "task"?
> 
> ...nope, I'm comming up blank here...

What is the area of work in question?

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Sabrina Kilian <"ykgp at vtSPAM.edu"> wrote:
> >   OTOH, many laws have been passed which feel constitutionally extremely
> > dubious (eg. regarding freedom of speech) which this board has nevertheless
> > given a thumbs up. Sometimes I seriously doubt the impartiality of the
> > board.

> Is there a process to over rule this groups opinion of the law, or is it 
> absolute?

  I don't really know. I suppose it's probable.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

"andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:487### [at] hotmailcom...

> If such a policy is in place, it becomes relatively less easy for a
> white guy to find a job. So when it is in place for some time...
>
> Probably does not work that way.

It does. Highly skilled people of european descent have a very hard time
finding work here. It's not just males.
White females are not previously disadvantaged.

Post a reply to this message

Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> The first 10 amendments to the constitution actually went further, and 
> forbid certain kinds of laws from being created.

Technically, the constitution already says the government isn't allowed 
to make certain kinds of laws, and the first ten amendments reiterated 
some of them.  Some of the arguments against passing them in the first 
place (way back in the first years of the country's existence) were 
exactly for that reason: If we say the government specifically can't do 
ABC when we've already said they can't do anything we don't explicitly 
allow, then people will forget that latter part and let them do XYZ.

It was a good first try, but it's still a republic, and falls apart when 
nobody elected can be trusted.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

Post a reply to this message

On 18-Jul-08 18:11, Gail Shaw wrote:
> "andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
> news:487### [at] hotmailcom...
> 
>> If such a policy is in place, it becomes relatively less easy for a
>> white guy to find a job. So when it is in place for some time...
>>
>> Probably does not work that way.
> 
> It does. Highly skilled people of european descent have a very hard time
> finding work here. It's not just males.
> White females are not previously disadvantaged.
> 
I think I was not clear enough :(
ATM you and any guy with similar color has a disadvantage in finding a 
job, hence soon you will be previously disadvantaged. And my guess was 
that that would be logically correct, but highly unlikely to be 
acknowledged.

BTW Gail, a couple of weeks ago I met three students from Witwatersrand 
at a biomedical engineering conference. All non blacks, but that could 
be a coincidence. I am also involved somewhat with a summerschool in the 
hospital, of the 30 or attendants 10 or so come from SA, from the Cape 
Town area this time. Also at the conference, a friend of mine 
(Portuguese but born in Maputo) and me decided that it would be a good 
idea if the big triannual conference would go to africa. So we asked 
some friends in Cape Town if they would consider putting in a bid to 
organize it. If that works out I will be going to SA in ... 2015! Anyway 
there seems to be a disproportional lot of SA in my live recently.

Post a reply to this message

"andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:488### [at] hotmailcom...
>  And my guess was
> that that would be logically correct, but highly unlikely to be
> acknowledged.

Ah, sorry, I misread. You aer correct.
The definition of "previously disadvantaged" is disadvantaged by the
government that was in power until 1994.
Logically, that means that no one born after 1994 can be considered
"previously disadvantaged".

>  If that works out I will be going to SA in ... 2015! Anyway
> there seems to be a disproportional lot of SA in my live recently.

Awesome. We're mostly nice people.
If you do come down here, and I'm still in SA at the time, we can arrange
some get together somewhere..

Post a reply to this message