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From: JimB
Subject: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 14 Jul 2010 14:20:01
Message: <web.4c3dff1f445776b1b90551660@news.povray.org>
Trying to install POV-Ray 3.62 on Windows 7 boxes (one is 64bit the other is
32bit). It is not installing for all users. Is there a way to install it for all
users?
Thanks


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 14 Jul 2010 14:26:26
Message: <4c3e0152$1@news.povray.org>
On 14.07.10 20:17, JimB wrote:
> Trying to install POV-Ray 3.62 on Windows 7 boxes (one is 64bit the other is
> 32bit). It is not installing for all users. Is there a way to install it for all
> users?

You must have administrator privileges to install an application for all 
users on Windows.

	Thorsten


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From: JimB
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 14 Jul 2010 14:35:02
Message: <web.4c3e03222a28c89fb90551660@news.povray.org>
Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> On 14.07.10 20:17, JimB wrote:
> > Trying to install POV-Ray 3.62 on Windows 7 boxes (one is 64bit the other is
> > 32bit). It is not installing for all users. Is there a way to install it for all
> > users?
>
> You must have administrator privileges to install an application for all
> users on Windows.
>
>  Thorsten

I am installing it with admin privileges...even RClicking "Ran as administrator"


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From: deanmsands3
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 19 Jul 2010 16:35:01
Message: <web.4c44b6e72a28c89fc52c51110@news.povray.org>
"JimB" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> > On 14.07.10 20:17, JimB wrote:
> > > Trying to install POV-Ray 3.62 on Windows 7 boxes (one is 64bit the other is
> > > 32bit). It is not installing for all users. Is there a way to install it for all
> > > users?
> >
> > You must have administrator privileges to install an application for all
> > users on Windows.
> >
> >  Thorsten
>
> I am installing it with admin privileges...even RClicking "Ran as administrator"
Using Win7x64, I:
*Created a shortcut to the Command Prompt
*Configured the Shortcut to Run As Administrator
*Ran the Link
I was dropped to C:\Windows\System32
*CD \Users\<YourNameHere>\Downloads
*msiexec /I "POV-Ray for Windows v3.7 beta 38 (64-bit).msi"

And I installed it for Everyone.


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From: Nick
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 23 Jul 2010 09:15:01
Message: <web.4c4994e52a28c89f4c9ffc60@news.povray.org>
"deanmsands3" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> > I am installing it with admin privileges...even RClicking "Ran as administrator"
> Using Win7x64, I:
> *Created a shortcut to the Command Prompt
> *Configured the Shortcut to Run As Administrator
> *Ran the Link
> I was dropped to C:\Windows\System32
> *CD \Users\<YourNameHere>\Downloads
> *msiexec /I "POV-Ray for Windows v3.7 beta 38 (64-bit).msi"
>
> And I installed it for Everyone.

msiexec /I "POV-Ray for Windows v3.7 beta 38 (64-bit).msi ALLUSERS=1 /qb- you
would have thought.

And it still insists on going in <homedir>\<user>\appdata\povray\...

Why can't it go in Program Files like everything else?  If you force it there it
will work for you - even then you have to fix the shortcut.  But no shortcuts
for anyone else, broken or otherwise, and a warning box that the application was
installed incorrectly when you run it direct from the executable.

So a plea please for a working installer designed for on multi-user systems, eg
for classroom use which is what I want to do.


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 24 Jul 2010 04:45:39
Message: <4c4aa833$1@news.povray.org>
Unfortunately we can't please everyone; whenever I make a change to the
install locations (prompted by Microsoft's own changes) someone is unhappy.
I distinctly remember getting a fairly abusive message from a user back in
the mid-90's complaining that installing into 'program files' was a stupid
idea and we should have continued using c:\povray :-(

On 23/07/2010 23:11, Nick wrote:
> Why can't it go in Program Files like everything else?

Because Microsoft recommends not using program files except for system-wide
installations (see below about that). For non-admin installs, even if a
user *thinks* they are installing into program files, they are actually
not: the files get put into the compatibility folder under their user
profile.

> So a plea please for a working installer designed for on multi-user
> systems, eg for classroom use which is what I want to do.

I have been considering changing the code to install into program files by
default (even if it ends up in compatibility folders), as the location we
are using seems to be confusing a bunch of people.

The 'install for all users' option in the version 3.7 installer is
*supposed*, if the installer is elevated, to install in program files. If
it is not then the install has a bug. In respect of v3.6 which you are
using, I'd have to take a look; quite possibly I have the same logic but
perhaps I didn't back-port that.

FWIW The ultimate intent of the 'install for all users' option is to
install the core files into program files, and leave an advertised
component linked to the install. When a user runs the program for the first
time, the advertised component runs and installs the per-user files (scene
files, include files, etc - basically anything they can edit). This isn't
done yet, though.

In any event, I intend to re-write the installer as I don't like
installshield (they seem to have a habit of implying legitimate users of
their software have stolen it). I'm probably going to change to using WiX
(http://wix.codeplex.com/).

If you're interested in helping re-write this you're welcome to volunteer:)

NB please also check the docs about the 'inferred install location' feature
and associated command-line options. It is there specifically for networked
and/or classroom use of the software.

-- Chris


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From: SharkD
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 25 Jul 2010 01:54:50
Message: <4c4bd1aa$1@news.povray.org>
On 7/14/2010 2:34 PM, JimB wrote:
> I am installing it with admin privileges...even RClicking "Ran as administrator"

Yeah, I ran into this problem as well. Never did try to identify a 
workaround and simply installed it under my local account instead.

-- 
http://isometricland.com


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From: Christian Froeschlin
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 28 Jul 2010 17:37:45
Message: <4c50a329$1@news.povray.org>
Chris Cason wrote:

> I have been considering changing the code to install into program files by
> default (even if it ends up in compatibility folders), as the location we
> are using seems to be confusing a bunch of people.

I'd recommend against using virtualization. This is mainly for legacy
software which is not Vista-aware. As Povray 3.7 is a state of the art
software it should support a newer OS directly. Also note that 64-bit
applications will never use virtualization so you may get into trouble 
when running 64-bit povray after installing that way.

Both installer and povray itself should contain a manifest marking them
as vista/7 aware. This is mainly done by adding <requestExecutionLevel>
and <supportOS> elements to the manifest. I'm not an InstallShield user
but I'd expect version 12 or higher to add a manifest automatically
based on "Required Execution Level".

My suggestion would be to test for administrator privileges (something
like if (Is(USER_INADMINGROUP,"") = TRUE)). If available, make Program
Files default. If not, display a warning message box that a single-user
install to application data will be performed, and if that is undesired
to cancel and restart with "Run As Administrator".

The latter option might be simplified for the user by providing
an EXE instead of an MSI.


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 28 Jul 2010 20:47:55
Message: <4c50cfbb@news.povray.org>
> I'd recommend against using virtualization. This is mainly for legacy
> software which is not Vista-aware. As Povray 3.7 is a state of the art
> software it should support a newer OS directly. Also note that 64-bit
> applications will never use virtualization so you may get into trouble
> when running 64-bit povray after installing that way.

Yes, good point.

> My suggestion would be to test for administrator privileges (something
> like if (Is(USER_INADMINGROUP,"") = TRUE)). If available, make Program

It's a little more complicated than this for me currently, as Windows
Installer lies about admin privilege by default (telling us that the user
has admin when they don't). There is a way around this, which I use, and
the installer (at least for the betas) will offer an 'all users' install if
the install is started under elevation. Unfortunately this doesn't work
just by running as administrator; elevation has to be explicitly requested.

> Both installer and povray itself should contain a manifest marking them
> as vista/7 aware. This is mainly done by adding <requestExecutionLevel>
> and <supportOS> elements to the manifest. I'm not an InstallShield user
> but I'd expect version 12 or higher to add a manifest automatically
> based on "Required Execution Level".

Thanks for the tip, this might be the thing I need to change the above
behavior. I don't have IS 12 (we got IS 11 two weeks before they released
v12; Acresso kindly offered to let me upgrade for 'only' $800) but I can
surely add these manually.

-- Chris


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: Windows 7 Install for all users
Date: 28 Jul 2010 22:08:25
Message: <4c50e299$1@news.povray.org>
Here's something I hadn't come across yet (dual-mode installs now easier):

  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd408068%28VS.85%29.aspx

Microsoft has also apparently realised that it was a bit silly not to have
provided a program files equivalent under the user's profile, so now there
is one: by default, it's C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Programs.

I think that pretty much answers the 'where to install' issue.

-- Chris


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