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Le 07/04/2014 23:48, nemesis a écrit :
> Got one these days for my daughter as well, a laptop. Most probably, the last
> desktop computing device I'm buying. I have consoles for games and do pretty
> much everything else on my android phone - of course, at work I still use a
> handy "mainframe".
>
> I long for the day when you just get home, connect it to a TV set and bluetooth
> input and is ready for "serious work". still not quite there, either in the
> software landscape or ease for connection (still kinda clunky, with wires and
> such)
>
>
It's coming... hdmi plug, small usb cable for powersupply (as long as
your tv as a usb port)
> http://linuxgizmos.com/hdmi-stick-mini-pc-runs-android-on-quad-core-arm-cortex-a9/
August 2013... the time has come!
--
Just because nobody complains does not mean all parachutes are perfect.
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On 08/04/2014 01:55 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:53:49 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
>> When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
>> with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
>> only work on a Tablet.
>
> Well, no, that wasn't the design goal (as I understand it), but I use
> GNOME3 daily, and I like its minimalistic approach.
Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
touchscreens.
> The only thing I absolutely hate about it is when a plugin dies, it
> crashes the entire session with an "Oh, no! Something happened!" and an
> option to log out. I would at /least/ like to save documents I have open
> before being forced to log out.
>
> Whoever thought that was a good idea spent far too much time dealing with
> systems where everything runs in ring 0 and an abend was generally
> considered a good thing. We're past those days now, and being able to
> recover, say, a running virtual machine might just be a /good/ thing.
I enjoy the way that you can enable and disable "GNOME shell
extensions". Except that an "extension" is merely some code that patches
the live JS code that powers the shell. When you disable one, THE
EXTENSION is responsible for undoing all of its changes. If it does this
incorrectly, then "disabling" a plugin does not put the system back into
its original state.
Hell, it's trivially possible to write an extension that installs itself
in the Init() function, and has EMPTY Enable() and Disable() functions!
In which case, enabling or disabling the extension is no-op.
People, THIS IS NOT SENSIBLE DESIGN!
Designing a system that is completely undocumented, yet can only be
extended by violating encapsulation to monkey-patch live code while it's
still running is a Bad Idea.
Designing a system where the plugin author is responsible for enabling
and disabling correctly is a Bad Idea.
Designing a system that's powered by an untyped psuedo-OO scripting
language originally intended for web development rather than desktop
applications is... questionable at best. :-P
Utterly failing to document one single shred of this is... exasperating
in the extremes!
Still, we found that once we (*cough* I *cough*) spent a few months
patching the code, we could get it to hobble along more or less how we
wanted. OTOH, if Win8 doesn't work how you like... suck it?
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Le_Forgeron <lef### [at] free fr> wrote:
> Le 07/04/2014 23:48, nemesis a écrit :
> > Got one these days for my daughter as well, a laptop. Most probably, the last
> > desktop computing device I'm buying. I have consoles for games and do pretty
> > much everything else on my android phone - of course, at work I still use a
> > handy "mainframe".
> >
> > I long for the day when you just get home, connect it to a TV set and bluetooth
> > input and is ready for "serious work". still not quite there, either in the
> > software landscape or ease for connection (still kinda clunky, with wires and
> > such)
> >
> >
> It's coming... hdmi plug, small usb cable for powersupply (as long as
> your tv as a usb port)
>
>
> > http://linuxgizmos.com/hdmi-stick-mini-pc-runs-android-on-quad-core-arm-cortex-a9/
>
> August 2013... the time has come!
quite cool but still not quite
on one side we have media streamers like Chromecast, AppleTV, Amazon FireTV
on the other we have devices like that, PCs in a thumbstick which will only
function when connected to a display
my smartphone already has a display! I just want to get home and easily connect
it to a larger display and keyboard.
Easy but not not cheap with bluetooth keyboards, cheap but clunky with miniUSB.
Kind clunky connecting to the TV because there's many ways: you can try to find
some hdmi cable to your device, or try to mirror some other way, and most ways
do nothing but just stream media. not cool
anyway, soon will be wearing pieces of interconnected devices. Have you guys
read Accelerando? :)
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On 08/04/2014 21:02, nemesis wrote:
> Have you guys
> read Accelerando?
Charles Stross. +1 :-)
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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> my smartphone already has a display! I just want to get home and easily connect
> it to a larger display and keyboard.
>
> Easy but not not cheap with bluetooth keyboards, cheap but clunky with miniUSB.
> Kind clunky connecting to the TV because there's many ways: you can try to find
> some hdmi cable to your device, or try to mirror some other way, and most ways
> do nothing but just stream media. not cool
I was under the impression that most android phones will work as USB
host, and also output HDMI on the same connector. Once you'd wired up a
USB hub, power, keyboard, mouse and HDMI connection can't you just leave
it all behind your TV, then when you come home just plug the single
connector into your phone?
Wouldn't the bigger problem be that the whole UI and most apps are
designed for a 400ppi display with multi-touch? I would have thought
using a mouse and large TV would be very frustrating on such a device.
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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > my smartphone already has a display! I just want to get home and easily connect
> > it to a larger display and keyboard.
> >
> > Easy but not not cheap with bluetooth keyboards, cheap but clunky with miniUSB.
> > Kind clunky connecting to the TV because there's many ways: you can try to find
> > some hdmi cable to your device, or try to mirror some other way, and most ways
> > do nothing but just stream media. not cool
>
> I was under the impression that most android phones will work as USB
> host, and also output HDMI on the same connector. Once you'd wired up a
> USB hub, power, keyboard, mouse and HDMI connection can't you just leave
> it all behind your TV, then when you come home just plug the single
> connector into your phone?
>
> Wouldn't the bigger problem be that the whole UI and most apps are
> designed for a 400ppi display with multi-touch? I would have thought
> using a mouse and large TV would be very frustrating on such a device.
mouse? why would anyone want to go back using a mouse when they can directly
touch anywhere in the screen?
that's why wireless screen mirroring is the sweet goal: you still have your
device in your hand to act as a touchscreen remote controller.
what's wrong with that UI? isn't it so fine that Windows is emulating it? ;)
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On 09/04/2014 20:47, nemesis wrote:
> what's wrong with that UI? isn't it so fine that Windows is emulating it?;)
Boak!
--
Regards
Stephen
I solemnly promise to kick the next angle, I see.
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On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 18:37:06 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 08/04/2014 01:55 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:53:49 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>
>>> When we updated all our stuff to OpenSUSE 12.2, we found that it comes
>>> with GNOME 3, which is basically just like GNOME 2, except designed to
>>> only work on a Tablet.
>>
>> Well, no, that wasn't the design goal (as I understand it), but I use
>> GNOME3 daily, and I like its minimalistic approach.
>
> Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
> it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
> touchscreens.
I run 13.1 on two machines every day with GNOME3. I've no idea what
you're talking about - I've got scrollbars in my newsreader (pan), for
example, and they work like scrollbars.
>> The only thing I absolutely hate about it is when a plugin dies, it
>> crashes the entire session with an "Oh, no! Something happened!" and
>> an option to log out. I would at /least/ like to save documents I have
>> open before being forced to log out.
>>
>> Whoever thought that was a good idea spent far too much time dealing
>> with systems where everything runs in ring 0 and an abend was generally
>> considered a good thing. We're past those days now, and being able to
>> recover, say, a running virtual machine might just be a /good/ thing.
>
> I enjoy the way that you can enable and disable "GNOME shell
> extensions". Except that an "extension" is merely some code that patches
> the live JS code that powers the shell. When you disable one, THE
> EXTENSION is responsible for undoing all of its changes. If it does this
> incorrectly, then "disabling" a plugin does not put the system back into
> its original state.
Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
handling a bit more.
> Hell, it's trivially possible to write an extension that installs itself
> in the Init() function, and has EMPTY Enable() and Disable() functions!
> In which case, enabling or disabling the extension is no-op.
>
> People, THIS IS NOT SENSIBLE DESIGN!
>
> Designing a system that is completely undocumented, yet can only be
> extended by violating encapsulation to monkey-patch live code while it's
> still running is a Bad Idea.
>
> Designing a system where the plugin author is responsible for enabling
> and disabling correctly is a Bad Idea.
>
> Designing a system that's powered by an untyped psuedo-OO scripting
> language originally intended for web development rather than desktop
> applications is... questionable at best. :-P
>
> Utterly failing to document one single shred of this is... exasperating
> in the extremes!
>
> Still, we found that once we (*cough* I *cough*) spent a few months
> patching the code, we could get it to hobble along more or less how we
> wanted. OTOH, if Win8 doesn't work how you like... suck it?
:)
And the extensions system in GNOME3 has allowed those who preferred GNOME2
to get some semblance of the functionality they were used to.
I don't really care about the DE myself; GNOME3 is less distracting for
me than KDE, which is why I use it - I'm more interested in apps and
getting work done than tweaking my desktop endlessly. ;)
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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>> Heck, in OpenSUSE 13.1, they even took away the scrollbar and replaced
>> it with a page-selector widget. The entire design seems focused on
>> touchscreens.
>
> I run 13.1 on two machines every day with GNOME3. I've no idea what
> you're talking about - I've got scrollbars in my newsreader (pan), for
> example, and they work like scrollbars.
https://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Application-Launching-GNOME-13.1.png
You see those three dots on the right-hand edge? That used to be a
scrollbar. And now it's three dots. Clicking one takes you to that page.
Because clicking a dot is easy, but dragging a scrollbar is hard, when
all you have is a touchscreen.
(Ironically, our product actually *has* a touchscreen - and everybody
tries to swape-drag like it's an iPhone, and then gets awfully confused
when that doesn't work...)
>> When you disable one, THE
>> EXTENSION is responsible for undoing all of its changes.
>
> Yep, and you can see the effects of this with some poorly written
> extensions. The GNOME developers *really* need to harden the error
> handling a bit more.
Tell me about it. Right about the time they start *documenting* how this
stuff is meant to work. (I still find it astonishing that this much code
has been written given that there is NO DOCUMENTATION!)
One troll told me "no, there IS no documentation, and nor should there
be; the source code is the documentation". WTF? Yeah, like I'm *really*
going to read 50,000 LoC in an untyped scripting language just to figure
out what ****ing command I need to turn off one button!
You do not read the Linux source code just to figure out what the
default process priority is; you look at the frigging documentation!
>> Utterly failing to document one single shred of this is... exasperating
>> in the extremes!
>>
>> Still, we found that once we (*cough* I *cough*) spent a few months
>> patching the code, we could get it to hobble along more or less how we
>> wanted. OTOH, if Win8 doesn't work how you like... suck it?
>
> :)
>
> And the extensions system in GNOME3 has allowed those who preferred GNOME2
> to get some semblance of the functionality they were used to.
>
> I don't really care about the DE myself; GNOME3 is less distracting for
> me than KDE, which is why I use it - I'm more interested in apps and
> getting work done than tweaking my desktop endlessly. ;)
Yeah, well, we're trying to alter the DE so that you can only run our
app with it. That's quite a non-standard task...
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> mouse? why would anyone want to go back using a mouse when they can directly
> touch anywhere in the screen?
>
> that's why wireless screen mirroring is the sweet goal: you still have your
> device in your hand to act as a touchscreen remote controller.
I think that would feel really weird using the touch screen without
looking at it, how would you know where to tap? But I've never tried it.
Or do you mean just using it like a trackpad on an old laptop? I hate
those too, give me a mouse please!
> what's wrong with that UI? isn't it so fine that Windows is emulating it? ;)
The problem is not so much the UI itself, but that the graphics are
designed for a 4" display, if you replicate it pixel-for-pixel onto a
24"+ screen then everything is just too big. I wonder if there is a way
to tell Android dynamically that you are using a different ppi screen
now and to adjust itself, I've always just put up with a 30cm wide icon
to launch YouTube when I've connected mine up :-)
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