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On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 09:05:50 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> On 01/06/2011 02:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> He seems to me to be mostly an opportunist, taking advantage of people
>> who aren't willing to think for themselves.
>
> Isn't the whole point of news producers to basically produce whatever
> people want to read, because it's more profitable that way?
Well, some believe that. Others believe that the purpose is to inform
the public.
The problem with Fox is that they blur the line between fact and opinion,
which results in stories being "reported" on opinion shows that push a
conservative agenda. They do apparently have serious news shows (that
some on the left even say do a good job reporting the news rather than
opining about the news), but I haven't had the patience to wait for that
2 hour segment during the 24 hour day - always had more important things
to do.
Jim
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On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 09:14:43 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> On 31/05/2011 20:20, Warp wrote:
>> Invisible<voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
>>> they have no /incentive/ to tell the truth.
>>
>> Not true.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards
>>
>> Many countries have organizations whose purpose is to make sure that
>> the media doesn't break the ethical standards. (Of course this doesn't
>> mean these organizations cannot be biased.)
>
> Sure. There are voluntary codes of practise. But as far as I know,
> there's nothing to stop anybody that wants to from completely
> disregarding these at will.
In the US there are people who have lost their jobs for behaving
unethically when reporting news. Usually in print media, and usually for
plagiarism.
Fox news was declined the ability to broadcast in Canada because of their
distortion of the facts.
Jim
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> On 31/05/2011 20:20, Warp wrote:
> > Invisible<voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> >> they have no /incentive/ to tell the truth.
> >
> > Not true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards
> >
> > Many countries have organizations whose purpose is to make sure that
> > the media doesn't break the ethical standards. (Of course this doesn't
> > mean these organizations cannot be biased.)
> Sure. There are voluntary codes of practise. But as far as I know,
> there's nothing to stop anybody that wants to from completely
> disregarding these at will.
Voluntary and voluntary... It's not good publicity if your newspaper
gets officially reprimended by the entity that enforces the journalistic
ethic code. Besides, the media cannot break the law either.
--
- Warp
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>> Sure. There are voluntary codes of practise. But as far as I know,
>> there's nothing to stop anybody that wants to from completely
>> disregarding these at will.
>
> Voluntary and voluntary... It's not good publicity if your newspaper
> gets officially reprimended by the entity that enforces the journalistic
> ethic code.
Well, that's true enough.
> Besides, the media cannot break the law either.
That's what I'm saying. As far as I can tell, there's no actual *law*
against printing outright lies in a newspaper. It's just considered poor
journalistic practise by some.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 5/31/2011 6:27 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2011 15:43:23 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>
>> Basically, all the evidence suggests, including statements the man made
>> himself on occasion, that Fox is *very specifically* the political
>> mouthpiece of one single man,
>
> Actually, the impression I get of Rupert Murdoch is that he's in business
> to make money. If he could make money from more a progressive/liberal
> audience, he'd probably appear to be on the other end of the spectrum.
>
> He seems to me to be mostly an opportunist, taking advantage of people
> who aren't willing to think for themselves.
>
> Jim
That may be true. And, if it is the case, then we really have a huge
damn problem, because like 2% of business owners see the long term
consequences of bankrupting the people that buy their goods as a,
"problem", the other 98% figure they can just keep paying people shit,
not hiring anyone, if they can help it, doing all their manufacturing in
other countries, and lining their own pockets. And, those people
constitute the "backbone" of the Republican support.
So long as that condition persists, there simply isn't any money in
catering to the progressive/liberal views. And, imho, it makes his
decision to do so even more stupid, dangerous, and, dare I, as a
liberal, non-Christian, use such a term, "unpatriotic". Hell, some of
these idiots I would go as far as using the term, "treason", on, except
that, until/unless some right winger gets elected and puts *that* back
into law, you probably couldn't try them on it, even if you managed to
get them in front of a judge for being stupid enough to do things damn
close to qualifying.
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On 6/1/2011 10:27 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 09:05:50 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>
>> On 01/06/2011 02:27, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> He seems to me to be mostly an opportunist, taking advantage of people
>>> who aren't willing to think for themselves.
>>
>> Isn't the whole point of news producers to basically produce whatever
>> people want to read, because it's more profitable that way?
>
> Well, some believe that. Others believe that the purpose is to inform
> the public.
>
> The problem with Fox is that they blur the line between fact and opinion,
> which results in stories being "reported" on opinion shows that push a
> conservative agenda. They do apparently have serious news shows (that
> some on the left even say do a good job reporting the news rather than
> opining about the news), but I haven't had the patience to wait for that
> 2 hour segment during the 24 hour day - always had more important things
> to do.
>
> Jim
Yeah. Most of their time seems to be spent talking about the "reported"
facts, of the opinion show, which reported on someone else's opinion or
the opinion some clown had, about the previously reported news, on the
first show. I.e., why put up new news, if you can just recycle your own
pundits opinions of your own opinion, or the news you barely reported in
the first place? The main "news" show declares, "Spot say a ball",
becomes a discussion on X show about the color of the ball, followed by
Beck (or whom ever is left there now to do this) declares it red, and
says Spot might be a communist, and a few days later the main show is
quoting how Sarah Palin's opinion of what Ann Coulter said, in relation
to Mike Huckabee's comments, about Beck's claims, that Spot is a communist.
BTW, the most stupidly dangerous thing about this isn't if its pandering
to the right, because that is what is making money, its the fact that
half the idiots that seem to be possible candidates for the next
election, or keep trying to run, now "work" for Fox. You can't tell me
that is good for impartiality, or accuracy...
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On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 15:16:07 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> BTW, the most stupidly dangerous thing about this isn't if its pandering
> to the right, because that is what is making money, its the fact that
> half the idiots that seem to be possible candidates for the next
> election, or keep trying to run, now "work" for Fox. You can't tell me
> that is good for impartiality, or accuracy...
I suspect the FEC may need to get involved if someone like Palin or
Huckabee decides to run (Huck has decided not to, though), because there
are laws about equal time that FNC would run seriously afoul of (IMHO)
for giving someone like Palin a platform that wasn't available to the
opposition. Fred Thompson had to quit Law & Order when he decided to run
for office because of those very same laws.
Jim
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On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 15:07:34 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> That may be true. And, if it is the case, then we really have a huge
> damn problem, because like 2% of business owners see the long term
> consequences of bankrupting the people that buy their goods as a,
> "problem", the other 98% figure they can just keep paying people shit,
> not hiring anyone, if they can help it, doing all their manufacturing in
> other countries, and lining their own pockets. And, those people
> constitute the "backbone" of the Republican support.
What's so maddening is how the right has convinced people that they can
live the "American Dream" and, if they (the 'little people') had money,
they wouldn't want big bad Uncle Sam coming out with his hand out asking
for more money to fund feeding the poor and underprivileged.
But most of those people who vote Republican aren't ever going to benefit
from those tax cuts because the more people there are in that tax
bracket, the less power there is to go around to those people who are in
that tax bracket. So it's in their interest to "keep the dream alive"
for those less fortunate while actively preventing the less fortunate
from actually climbing the economic ladder.
Which is class warfare. It's funny (and sad) how the right spins
increasing taxes on the rich into class warfare and paints it as a 'bad
thing' when in fact they are actively engaged in class warfare and those
who are less fortunate are told that that crap sandwich is *really*
fillet mignon.
Jim
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On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:30:39 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Sure. There are voluntary codes of practise. But as far as I know,
>>> there's nothing to stop anybody that wants to from completely
>>> disregarding these at will.
>>
>> Voluntary and voluntary... It's not good publicity if your newspaper
>> gets officially reprimended by the entity that enforces the
>> journalistic ethic code.
>
> Well, that's true enough.
>
>> Besides, the media cannot break the law either.
>
> That's what I'm saying. As far as I can tell, there's no actual *law*
> against printing outright lies in a newspaper. It's just considered poor
> journalistic practise by some.
Depends on the lie. Some lies certainly would be illegal if they were
libelous (for example).
Jim
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>> Isn't the whole point of news producers to basically produce whatever
>> people want to read, because it's more profitable that way?
>
> Well, some believe that. Others believe that the purpose is to inform
> the public.
This seems to be the fundamental divide, yes. If you think about it,
these two beliefs are fundamentally opposed. Either the media serves the
public, or it serves itself. Which is it?
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