Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Is it fair to mention that the first had revolutionary special effects, and
> >> the other two didn't bring that much to the table? The "burly brawl" scene
> >> in particular had very fake looking CG people.
> >
> > What impressed me most about that scene was the choreography. Sure, the CGI
> > looked a little fake in a couple of shots, but the overall effect was
> > incredible. You can watch Neo wallop a Smith into the distance, watch that
> > Smith get up, dust himself down, and make his way back into the fray for
> > another wallop. And they're *all* doing that, over and over! Probably works
> > better as a music video than a movie scene tho.
>
> Heh. Every time I watch it, I can't help noticing that there's, like,
> 200 Smiths, but only 3 of them are actually trying to attack him at any
> one moment. The rest of them are all standing there "winding up" to do
> something. They got it so that it doesn't look like anybody is standing
> around waiting, but in reality they all are. Only a tiny number of them
> are actually attacking at any moment.

True, but it's actually quite tricky for more than about 6 people to attack one
individual - they just run out of space. Made all the more difficult by how
slippery an opponent Neo is at this point. They should have all jumped on him
at once right away - it was pretty obvious they were no match for him.

But I like the way the fight is ramped up, it starts out fairly small groups, as
you say, but the last 20-30 seconds are *really* hectic. And that final
Smith-bomb slo-mo is pure eye-candy.

Pointless fight though, has to be said :)

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>> Heh. Every time I watch it, I can't help noticing that there's, like,
>> 200 Smiths, but only 3 of them are actually trying to attack him at any
>> one moment. The rest of them are all standing there "winding up" to do
>> something. They got it so that it doesn't look like anybody is standing
>> around waiting, but in reality they all are. Only a tiny number of them
>> are actually attacking at any moment.
> 
> True, but it's actually quite tricky for more than about 6 people to attack one
> individual - they just run out of space.

You get the impression there could be more than 3 though. (Think about 
the scene from the first film where the cops rush in and club Morpheous.)

> They should have all jumped on him
> at once right away - it was pretty obvious they were no match for him.

Yes, that would make far mor sense...

> But I like the way the fight is ramped up, it starts out fairly small groups, as
> you say, but the last 20-30 seconds are *really* hectic. And that final
> Smith-bomb slo-mo is pure eye-candy.

Eye-candy is about all there is to it, really. Badly-drawn eye-candy, 
mostly.

> Pointless fight though, has to be said :)

Hey, I'm bored now. I'm just going to fly away. Never mind that I could 
have done that 10 minutes ago...

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > True, but it's actually quite tricky for more than about 6 people to attack
> > one individual - they just run out of space.
> You get the impression there could be more than 3 though. (Think about
> the scene from the first film where the cops rush in and club Morpheous.)

I'm sure I remember seeing up to 6 or 7 at a time near the start of the fight...
ohwell, not seen it for a while.

> Eye-candy is about all there is to it, really. Badly-drawn eye-candy,
> mostly.

Ah, I don't think it's that bad. It doesn't always look completely real, but I
still think it looks good. And there's always the retcon that it's not *meant*
to be real, since it's in the Matrix... ;-)

> > Pointless fight though, has to be said :)
> Hey, I'm bored now. I'm just going to fly away. Never mind that I could
> have done that 10 minutes ago...

Just what I thought when I first saw it... that's probably why they felt it
necessary to separate him from the action during the freeway chase. Would have
been all over pretty quickly otherwise!

Reminds me of something I read about T2 - apparently they got quite a long way
through writing the script before they realised that nobody could think of a
credible way of actually killing off the T-1000...!

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Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I lost a lot of respect for Reloaded when they very obviously offloaded a huge
> sub-plot to another production (the video game, I believe).

  They had the idea that the story would be divided into three movies,
a series of anime shorts and a videogame, and that all of these would
be part of the whole. Also the universe didn't die with the end of the
third movie, but continued in the online game.

  A somewhat interesting and theoretically innovative idea, but even
I have to admit that in the end it mostly failed (not the least because
the videogame was rushed because of time constraints and consequently
was not of the highest quality and was widely panned by critics). Rather
than the different parts in different media forming a whole, it feels
more like the story being shattered into pieces.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > Pointless fight though, has to be said :)

> Hey, I'm bored now. I'm just going to fly away. Never mind that I could 
> have done that 10 minutes ago...

  Maybe it was a question of pride? Maybe Neo didn't want to lose to Smith
and run like a coward? When Smith (well, Smiths) overpowered him he had to
swallow is pride and flee. So in the end he lost the fight, and he was not
all that happy about the fact.

  After all, you have to remember that Neo had clearly grown up to be rather
cocky. He was "invincible" and even the agents couldn't do anything to him.
The cockiness shows in the beginning of the movie, when the agents attack
him. Suddenly losing to someone like Smith (who he had defeated years ago
so easily) was probably something he was not expecting.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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I don't hate the sequels, though I liked them better at first then I do now.

Some movies are the opposite, where I like them more as time goes on. 
Unfortunately, that's not the case for the Matrix sequels.

-- 
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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On 4/9/2009 3:05 AM, Invisible wrote:
> I basically agree with almost everything you just said. (But you said it
> way better than me.) The actual fight scenes are even more impressive
> than the original - it's just that there didn't seem to be any *point*
> to them.

"Are you telling me I can dodge bullets?"

"No, I'm saying you won't have to."

"Is that because I'll become so powerful that I'll transcend violence?"

"No, it's because you can stop bullets in mid-air.  You'll still have to 
dodge punches and kicks."

WHAT THE HE**?

-- 
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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On 4/9/2009 3:03 AM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> "Slime"<fak### [at] emailaddress>  wrote:
>> Reloaded was also confusing (much more than the first, to the point where I
>> still can't figure some of it out)
>
> I lost a lot of respect for Reloaded when they very obviously offloaded a huge
> sub-plot to another production (the video game, I believe).

Actually, one of the things I respect them for is their effort to use 
multiple mediums to tell the story.  They have parts of the story in the 
movies, in video games, in comic books and in animations.

-- 
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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Chambers <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote:
> On 4/9/2009 3:03 AM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> > "Slime"<fak### [at] emailaddress>  wrote:
> >> Reloaded was also confusing (much more than the first, to the point where I
> >> still can't figure some of it out)
> >
> > I lost a lot of respect for Reloaded when they very obviously offloaded a huge
> > sub-plot to another production (the video game, I believe).
>
> Actually, one of the things I respect them for is their effort to use
> multiple mediums to tell the story.  They have parts of the story in the
> movies, in video games, in comic books and in animations.

I don't mind that, I agree it's a good idea in principle. However, the way that
subplot was referenced in the movie was pretty awkward, and I think it
adversely affected the narrative flow.

Confused the hell out of me, at any rate. :)

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>> Actually, one of the things I respect them for is their effort to use
>> multiple mediums to tell the story.  They have parts of the story in the
>> movies, in video games, in comic books and in animations.
> 
> I don't mind that, I agree it's a good idea in principle. However, the way that
> subplot was referenced in the movie was pretty awkward, and I think it
> adversely affected the narrative flow.
> 
> Confused the hell out of me, at any rate. :)

Nice idea, poor implementation. A bit like many things, actually... ;-)

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