Hi,

When can we expect a build of povray for the new Intel Macs?  Is it
a simple matter to recompile on the new hardware, or are there changes
needed to take advantage of Intel-specific features?

	tom

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Thomas A. Fine wrote:
> When can we expect a build of povray for the new Intel Macs?  Is it
> a simple matter to recompile on the new hardware, or are there changes
> needed to take advantage of Intel-specific features?

It means throwing away code that makes the Mac version fast, like the 
just-in-time compiler for functions, Alitvec optimisations and of course 
getting an Intel Mac to develop on. Neither of which will happen in the 
short or mid-term future. Late 2007 the earliest, I would say.

Your best bet is to compile the Unix command-line version if you want a 
truly native version, but you should not bet on that, if compiled with gcc 
(rather than Intel's much better, yet commercial, compiler), there will be 
any speed advantage. Plus, the Intel notebook processors Apple so far uses 
are not really faster than the PowerPC processors in the desktop Macs anyway 
... so you should not expect much difference from a recent G5 Mac/iMac.

	Thorsten Froehlich, POV-Team

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Thomas A. Fine <fin### [at] head-cfaharvardedu> wrote:


> When can we expect a build of povray for the new Intel Macs?  Is it
> a simple matter to recompile on the new hardware, or are there changes
> needed to take advantage of Intel-specific features?
If there is someone with an Intel Mac and he/she is willing to give a
hand with testing, knows what patience is,....
I can try to build a Universal Binary for MegaPOV, but only for testing
purposes.
I don't own an Intel Mac so it is a bit hard to say how long it would
take.
My guess is that I'm at a point where turning on the switch is enough
;-)

And I'm convinced that MegaPOV on an Intel iMac will run (a little)
faster and better compared to a G5.

But like Thorsten said, just-in-time compiler for functions is missing
and you will notice this for those features that use it.
However, if you have an Intel base mac, a native version is always
faster :-)

Only time will tell and I will of course not go in an endless
discussion, because I can not verify it yet. ;-)

So, if you own an Intel Mac and are brave, send me an e-mail!

Yvo

-- 
-----------------------------------
MegaPOV at:  http://megapov.inetart.net
MacMegaPOV at:  http://users.skynet.be/smellenbergh
E-mail: yvo### [at] gmxnet

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In article <43d7fef9$1@news.povray.org>,
 fin### [at] head-cfaharvardedu (Thomas A. Fine) wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> When can we expect a build of povray for the new Intel Macs?  Is it
> a simple matter to recompile on the new hardware, or are there changes
> needed to take advantage of Intel-specific features?
> 
> 	tom

have you already an intel based macintosh ?

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In article <kurtzlepirate-BD3B30.19324526012006@news.povray.org>,
kurtz le pirate  <kur### [at] yahoofr> wrote:
>In article <43d7fef9$1@news.povray.org>,
> fin### [at] head-cfaharvardedu (Thomas A. Fine) wrote:
>> When can we expect a build of povray for the new Intel Macs?
>have you already an intel based macintosh ?

Actually, I was thinking I'd buy one as soon as there was a native
povray.  The JIT compiler is definitely nice though.  I've been
playing around with isosurfaces quite a bit, and it makes a 1.5 GHz
iBook seem like a top-of-the-line number cruncher.

I did see someone who had a povray patch that used gcc to build and
load a library at run-time.  So there's another JIT compiler method
that's out there for other CPUs.  But it's slower to build because
of invoking gcc (not a big hit for complicated scenes), and it's
probably not as well-optimized, since I'd expect the Mac JIT compiler
to be really specific in it's optimizations.

It seems there's a lot of people who would be motivated to build an
Intel JIT compiler into the standard povray.

      tom

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Well, I just got my MacBook Pro, and I've been running some pseudo-benchmark
tests.   I have access to three machines:

1. 1.8 GHz MacBook Pro 2 GB,
2. 867 MHz Powerbook G4 12" 640 MB,
3. 1.6 GHz Powermac G5, 1.25 GB

According to Apple, the MacBook Pro is supposed to be 2-4 times the speed of
the 1.5 GHz Powerbook G4, so closer to 3-7 times the speed of my 0.8 GHz
PBG4.

First the GOOD NEWS: POV-Ray runs on the MacBook Pro!
  (Else MacBook Pro -> Trash.)

Now the tests: I ran the same input file and render settings on these
machines.  However, this does not constitute a rigorous benchmark and
should be taken with (a lot of) salt.

Running POV-Ray 3.6 for Mac OS Frontend Build 197 (the PPC version with
GUI), here are the render times:

1.8 GHz MBP: 883 s
867 MHz PBG4: 935 s
1.6 GHz PMG5, 1.25 GB:  333 s

On the MacBook Pro, top shows Approx. 100% of *ONE* cpu-core is working for
POV-Ray,
system is close to 50% idle.  (Quick tests of running two copies at once
don't show any real speed gain.)

That done, I compiled the generic unix version of POV-Ray.  This is just a
straight installation.

It gave me the message "Well I'll be, a i686-apple-darwin8.5.2 system."   =)
The compiled version says "Persistence of Vision(tm) Ray Tracer Version
3.6.1 (g++ 4.0.1 @ i686-apple-darwin8.5.2)"

The generic unix version compiles, checks, and runs, but
hangs part-way through benchmark render (After 6 minutes,
no more progress reported, but core still at 100%)

To get some benchmark at all, I rendered the same .pov file, but with a
smaller output size. Here are the results:

1.8 GHz MBP: 69 s (Native unix version)
1.8 GHz MBP: 68 s (PPC GUI version)
1.6 GHz PMG5: 27 s  (PPC GUI version)

(It's surprisingly close in its performance to that of the PPC version
running under rosetta-- I can't help but wondering if some PPC code is
getting in there somehow.  On the other hand, the install script correctly
picks the target architecture, so I don't see how it would. )

Finally, I checked MegaPOV... and it doesn't work.
MacMegaPOV Mach-O  1.2.1  (PPC GUI version) : Does not launch (!)
Megapov 1.2.1 (Unix): Errors prevent "make check" from completing.

To summarize: On the new Intel-based Macs, POV-Ray runs, about as fast as on
a 1 GHz G4.  Using a dumb, straighforward install of the unix version, the
program seems to hang easily and is as slow as the emulated PowerPC
version.  MegaPOV, both in unix and GUI versions is broken.

I'd be happy to help, in any way that I can, the evolution of POV-Ray and
MegaPOV to the Intel-based macs.  If anyone has a version that they're
interested in testing, please let me know.

Thanks,
-Windell.

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> Megapov 1.2.1 (Unix): Errors prevent "make check" from completing.

	Try just a 'make' or 'make install' without using 'check':
the latter will cause the build to fail on the test render only,
since the biscuit.pov scene file used to test the executable is
not present in the MegaPOV 1.2.1 distribution (that scene file is
however part of the official POV-Ray 3.6.1).
	It's likely that you actually did compile megapov successfully
(especially if you did also get a working povray before).

	- NC

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I installed povray 3.6 onto my macBook pro. Whenever I try to open it, it
starts opening and goes as far as showing sort of a table named 'Messages'
and another named 'Templates'. Then it just vanishes and gives this
message:- "The application POV-Ray Mac 3.6 quit unexpectedly". I was
wondering if you could help me in this matter.

I have very little experience with povray and I've only worked on it on a
Linux based machine.

Thanks

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"thuthon" <nomail@nomail> wrote:

> I installed povray 3.6 onto my macBook pro. Whenever I try to open it, it
> starts opening and goes as far as showing sort of a table named 'Messages'
> and another named 'Templates'. Then it just vanishes and gives this
> message:- "The application POV-Ray Mac 3.6 quit unexpectedly". I was
> wondering if you could help me in this matter.
Until there is a Universal Binary version of POV-Ray your only choice is
MegaPOV which is already available as a  Universal Binary. It runs very
fast on Intel Macs (and PPC).
You can find it here:
http://megapov.inetart.net/download.html#Mac
MegaPOV will produce the same results but has some extra patches which
you don't have to use.

Running applications like POV-Ray under Rosetta is something you really
don't want to do. It is extremely slow and Rosetta was not designed for
things like this.

Yvo

-- 
-----------------------------------
MegaPOV at:  http://megapov.inetart.net
MacMegaPOV at:  http://users.skynet.be/smellenbergh
E-mail: yvo### [at] gmxnet

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Thanks Ivo for porting megapov to macintel

Regards

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