In article <36d9d81c.0@news.povray.org> , "Thorsten Froehlich" 
<fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> wrote:

> Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL is available everywhere.
Sometimes what I write is not what I want to write :-(
This sentence should say (nearly) exactly the opposite:

Except on mainstream platforms OpenGL isn't available everywhere.
                                        ^^^

Sorry, for this stupid typo!


     Thorsten

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In article <36DA00C2.45AFA4A9@geocities.com> , "Jon A. Cruz" 
<jon### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:

> You seem to imply that it is not standard on Windows. Is that what you meant?

No, I made a stupid typo changing what I wanted to say completely, sorry! Of
course as you noticed what I wrote makes no sense at all! (See my other new
post.)


     Thorsten

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Jim Kress wrote:
> 
> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> I need.
> 
> OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.

What POV-Ray could use is an OpenGL-based modeler.  If it's external to
POV-Ray itself but capable of producing POV-Ray files (even, in the best
of all possible worlds, reading POV-Ray files), the platform-dependence
Thorsten mentions wouldn't be an issue.  None of the currently available
modelers are very portable, AFAIK.  But what you suggest is best
implemented in a modeler rather than the (existing) renderer.

Mark Gordon
mtg### [at] mailbagcom
http://www.mailbag.com/users/mtgordon/index.html

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Just to toss this in here for possible implementors:

Java3D could be one way to get a decent modeler going, and get some
cross-platform at the same time.
The current implementations use OpenGL on Solaris, and OpenGL on MS Windows, with
a DirectX version coming soon.

I'm in the middle of a couple other projects at the moment, so haven't taken this
up. However, once I get a simple distributed rendering system going, a simple
animator/modeller is close to next. After looking at the Java3D demo apps, it
seems to be at a good performance/abilities level for such applications.


Mark Gordon wrote:

> Jim Kress wrote:
> >
> > The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> > preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> > re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> > I need.
> >
> > OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
> > (easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.
>
> What POV-Ray could use is an OpenGL-based modeler.  If it's external to
> POV-Ray itself but capable of producing POV-Ray files (even, in the best
> of all possible worlds, reading POV-Ray files), the platform-dependence
> Thorsten mentions wouldn't be an issue.  None of the currently available
> modelers are very portable, AFAIK.  But what you suggest is best
> implemented in a modeler rather than the (existing) renderer.
>
> Mark Gordon
> mtg### [at] mailbagcom
> http://www.mailbag.com/users/mtgordon/index.html
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GCS/S d-- s-:+> a- C++ UA+$ UH+$ UO+ $US+ $UL++++ P+++ L++(+++) E W++ N+
> o--
> K++ w---$ O- M V--$ PS++ PE- Y+ PGP->+ t+ 5++ X R+ tv-- b++ DI++ D+ G
> e++>++++
> h- r*%--- y--
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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"Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom> wrote:

>OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating previews
>so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
>render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
>since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
>IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?

Don't think we haven't thought of this. But it would be -very- difficult.

OpenGL is totally different to POV in that it only implements a few primitives,
and basically requires that any complex object be built up from polygons.

POV, on the other hand, supports an extensive set of primitives, plus other
advanced things such as CSG (performing CSG on polygon meshes is not trivial).

To make a OpenGL preview, we would have to write code for each and every
primitive that POV supports, that would convert an instance of that primitive
into a form suitable for use in OpenGL, plus, probably do the CSG as well
(unless we can factor it into the conversion process - thus leveraging the
existing CSG code in POV).

It's certainly high on my wish list for 4.0 but there's no telling if it will
ever happen.

However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to volunteer
to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...

Post a reply to this message

Jim Kress schrieb in Nachricht <36d9d4f2.0@news.povray.org>...
>The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
>preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
>re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
>I need.
>
>OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating
previews
>so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
>render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
>since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
>IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?


Like others said, OpenGL is not available on all platforms and previews like
that should really be done in a modeller. An OpenGL modeller would be Breeze
or Calimax. Why don't you try those? Of course, they are Windows only, but
most modellers are platform specific anyway.

The only thing easier to implement would be a wireframe preview, but the you
could just as well use the existing POV-Ray preview modes. They are good
enough to preview placement and lighting. And they are fast enough.
--
Rudy Velthuis

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Platinum has just announced that the source code for their VRML renderer
COSMO  (based on OpenGL) is now public domain.  With a POV to VRML
translator/ interface (I remember seeing one mentioned in an earlier thread)
and the COSMO code there could be a mechanism to provide a viewing
capability by reusing existing code.

Too obtuse/ convoluted?

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




povray.org admin team wrote in message <36da5e64.2887390@news.povray.org>...
>"Jim Kress" <jim### [at] dccmailcom> wrote:
>
>>OpenGL offers an easy to implement, raster scan technology that could be
>>(easily?) implemented in POV-Ray.  It would be ideal for generating
previews
>>so the user could determine camera, lighting, etc and then do the final
>>render with the ray-tracer.  If I knew how to do C++, I'd do it myself but
>>since I don't, is there anyone out there who would like to add this
>>IMMENSELY useful feature to POV?
>
>Don't think we haven't thought of this. But it would be -very- difficult.
>
>OpenGL is totally different to POV in that it only implements a few
primitives,
>and basically requires that any complex object be built up from polygons.
>
>POV, on the other hand, supports an extensive set of primitives, plus other
>advanced things such as CSG (performing CSG on polygon meshes is not
trivial).
>
>To make a OpenGL preview, we would have to write code for each and every
>primitive that POV supports, that would convert an instance of that
primitive
>into a form suitable for use in OpenGL, plus, probably do the CSG as well
>(unless we can factor it into the conversion process - thus leveraging the
>existing CSG code in POV).
>
>It's certainly high on my wish list for 4.0 but there's no telling if it
will
>ever happen.
>
>However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to
volunteer
>to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...

Post a reply to this message

What about mosaic preview. Isn't that good enough? (+SPn +EPn switches)
Alberto.

Jim Kress wrote:

> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting position
> I need.

Post a reply to this message

What I'm looking for is a previewer that will allow real time rotation,
translation, light positioning, camera positioning, etc. with real time
rendering of the scene while every change is being made.  Kind of like using
a VRML viewer.   It appears the known universe is satisfied with using the
existing modelers so if I want this, I'll have to do it myself ... :(

--
Jim

Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights beyond compare!

Be sure to read the Warp maintained POV VFAQ:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html




Alberto Mendoza wrote in message <36DB5876.45ED6670@usb.ve>...
>What about mosaic preview. Isn't that good enough? (+SPn +EPn switches)
>Alberto.
>
>Jim Kress wrote:
>
>> The only annoying thing I run into when using POV-ray is the inability to
>> preview my scenes.  I spend a seemingly endless amount of time rendering,
>> re-rendering, re-rendering,... just to get the camera and lighting
position
>> I need.
>

Post a reply to this message

> However, if there's any good C/C++ programmers out there who want to volunteer
> to add such support to the existing 3.1d codebase ...

Don't know if good, but I'am working on it.
It will use triangular meshes with infinite faces (infinite primitives
support). I want use it in my POV modeller but if you will like it ...

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