Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 3-10-2012 10:06, Le_Forgeron wrote:

> >
> > I'm still hesitant on one point: the moire that appears on the parcels.
> > It is somehow ok, as reflecting the texture of the material (not in
> > Pov-sdl meaning),yet it's an artefact shooting loud about computer graphics.
>
> I don't know what to do about it. It is the cloth texture image_map and
> normal_map doing this of course. One possibility is making the cloth
> coarser.
>

with our own eyes. Although in materials they tend to be very fine ones.

One thing that is bugging me is the water. I agree that in a river or estuary
you do get outflows of mud and silt after a heavy rainfall. But I think that the
brown water in the harbour is more like an industrial scene. Thinking back to
small harbours that I have seen, the water was always crystal clear. You could
even count the fish.

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Le 03/10/2012 13:10, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>> I like it too, but not as the observer is sitting: the observer is on a
>> small boat on the otherside of the quay, maybe stepping up on that quay
>> soon.
> 
> No, there is no water behind the observer; there is the extension of the
> city walls, so the observer /is/ sitting down in this version ;-)

Hey, you choose what I can see on the picture, but you have no power
over what I imagine out of it!
At least, not until the thought-police come into action and break my
door and all the windows in the assault.

 ;-)

P.S. : now if you can justify a mirror in the scene, I might be stuck!

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On 3-10-2012 15:39, Stephen wrote:

> with our own eyes. Although in materials they tend to be very fine ones.

True, but I can at least try to reduce a bit the worse effects. If not 
satisfying, I shall leave it as is.

>
> One thing that is bugging me is the water. I agree that in a river or estuary
> you do get outflows of mud and silt after a heavy rainfall. But I think that the
> brown water in the harbour is more like an industrial scene. Thinking back to
> small harbours that I have seen, the water was always crystal clear. You could
> even count the fish.

Good point, but remember that this harbour is open to the river, not to 
the sea. There may be sea water influxes from tides (feeble in the 
Mediterranean) or from sea wind, but then that would probably also 
become murky from the shallow bottom... and I don't know how well the 
sewage system of Gancaloon functions ;-)

As a good comparison, how clear is the Nile water close to the 
Mediterranean? Well, watching through Google Earth, not too murky it 
seems... I shall have to decide how murky the Yann is.

Thomas

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On 3-10-2012 16:03, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Le 03/10/2012 13:10, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>> No, there is no water behind the observer; there is the extension of the
>> city walls, so the observer /is/ sitting down in this version ;-)
>
> Hey, you choose what I can see on the picture, but you have no power
> over what I imagine out of it!
> At least, not until the thought-police come into action and break my
> door and all the windows in the assault.

LOL! You remind me of that story about Asimov (iirc) who attended a 
lecture about his own work, where the speaker explained all the 
different things that could be deduced from the work. Afterwards, Asimov 
told the speaker that he had never intended all those things. At which 
the speaker said: "What do you know? you are only the author."

> P.S. : now if you can justify a mirror in the scene, I might be stuck!

I shall, to your own disgrace ;-)

Thomas

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On 03/10/12 16:11, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> As a good comparison, how clear is the Nile water close to the
> Mediterranean? Well, watching through Google Earth, not too murky it
>  seems... I shall have to decide how murky the Yann is.

   It can be as murky as you want, but consider de-saturating a bit the
brown color (I would even make it more greenish).

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On 03/10/2012 3:11 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 3-10-2012 15:39, Stephen wrote:

>> real life
>> with our own eyes. Although in materials they tend to be very fine ones.
>
> True, but I can at least try to reduce a bit the worse effects. If not
> satisfying, I shall leave it as is.
>

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

>
> Good point, but remember that this harbour is open to the river, not to
> the sea. There may be sea water influxes from tides (feeble in the
> Mediterranean) or from sea wind, but then that would probably also
> become murky from the shallow bottom... and I don't know how well the
> sewage system of Gancaloon functions ;-)
>
> As a good comparison, how clear is the Nile water close to the
> Mediterranean? Well, watching through Google Earth, not too murky it
> seems... I shall have to decide how murky the Yann is.
>



Remember a harbour is designed to give ships protection so the water 
will be relatively calm. Any silt would drop out. And from memory, silt 
enriched rivers tend to be cloudier in the centre where the flow is 






-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 3-10-2012 22:24, Stephen wrote:


Which is an excellent quality :-)

>
> Remember a harbour is designed to give ships protection so the water
> will be relatively calm. Any silt would drop out. And from memory, silt
> enriched rivers tend to be cloudier in the centre where the flow is
> faster.

There is silt and silt. The finest particles will remain in suspension 
longer and, in the end, you will not see much difference between the 
central flow of the river and its borders. Well, close up maybe some but 
not dramatically so, with some transparency as a bonus, but all depends 
on the power of the stream.




Indeed, but now you are making my work very difficult ;-)

The water transition between river and sea has been designed on 
"planetary" scale. This means that the whole water surface you see in 
the scenes is a huge sphere. It would be nice to control the river water 
from point to point but that would mean a break up of the sphere and a 
difficult design in the end. I am not (yet) up to that I must confess.



Yes, and that is the approach I would prefer for the time being.

Thomas

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On 3-10-2012 17:44, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>    It can be as murky as you want, but consider de-saturating a bit the
> brown color (I would even make it more greenish).

Yes, that was one of the ToDo things on my list. I left it as is because 
I like to imagine the muddy character of the river, at least during 
certain seasons of the year. In the end, however, I shall have to design 
a whole scale of different hues reflecting those same seasonal changes.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 3-10-2012 17:44, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> >    It can be as murky as you want, but consider de-saturating a bit the
> > brown color (I would even make it more greenish).
>
> Yes, that was one of the ToDo things on my list. I left it as is because
> I like to imagine the muddy character of the river,


Now I understand. It is the river Ankh. :-)

Stephen Stronginthearm

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 3-10-2012 22:24, Stephen wrote:

>
> Which is an excellent quality :-)
>

It can be a bit irritating, though.


>
> There is silt and silt. The finest particles will remain in suspension
> longer and, in the end, you will not see much difference between the
> central flow of the river and its borders. Well, close up maybe some but
> not dramatically so, with some transparency as a bonus, but all depends
> on the power of the stream.
>

Okay, no more arguments.



>
> Indeed, but now you are making my work very difficult ;-)
>

:-P

> The water transition between river and sea has been designed on
> "planetary" scale. This means that the whole water surface you see in
> the scenes is a huge sphere. It would be nice to control the river water
> from point to point but that would mean a break up of the sphere and a
> difficult design in the end. I am not (yet) up to that I must confess.
>

And you say that *I* am making your work difficult. Look in the mirror that you
promised Le_Forgeron.

PS A polished shield would make a believable mirror.

Stephen

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