On 02/10/12 13:20, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> This is now corrected (see image).
>

   Oh, and indeed it looks convincing now... BTW, what's the black thing
at the right: a rat? ...if so, nice touch!

--
Jaime

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Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> On 02/10/12 13:20, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > This is now corrected (see image).
> >
>
>    Oh, and indeed it looks convincing now... BTW, what's the black thing
> at the right: a rat? ...if so, nice touch!
>
> --
> Jaime

Looks like a lizard to me.

Stephen

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On 2-10-2012 13:26, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>    Oh, and indeed it looks convincing now... BTW, what's the black thing
> at the right: a rat? ...if so, nice touch!

A lizard. I have orientated it differently now: more light, less shadows 
(but not its last transformation I guess).

Thomas

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Attachments:
Download 'gancaloon_river harbour_13.png' (1296 KB)

Preview of image 'gancaloon_river harbour_13.png'

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 2-10-2012 13:26, Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
> >    Oh, and indeed it looks convincing now... BTW, what's the black thing
> > at the right: a rat? ...if so, nice touch!
>
> A lizard. I have orientated it differently now: more light, less shadows
> (but not its last transformation I guess).

Thomas, I really like this concept and the scene is coming along beautifully
(love the grass!).

After reading a previous post, where the red sail seemed like a flag, it
occurred to me that the camera is at the height of sailor's thighs, and a
slightly higher (+y) camera position really would help to better spacially
orient the incoming ship, the buildings across the water, and the distant city.
Of course, a bit of atmospheric haze and focal blur can work wonders too :)

Cheers
-------------------------------------------------
www.McGregorFineArt.com

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> A lizard. I have orientated it differently now: more light, less shadows
> (but not its last transformation I guess).

I like the progress on this image, very impressing. The axis between the two
men; the invisible line between their eyes is a main composition element that is
nicely echoed by other lines, and there are lines normal to this (the rope at
the front of the boat especially) that binds the composition together. The
clouds make an arc that is echoed in the line of the bright hill in the
background. The direction of the lines in the foreground also contributes in a
good way.

A few points on the composition, if I may: the lizard seems to me to point out
of the image. I believe it would be better if its nose was turned to maybe seven
or eight o'clock (in the image plane, that is). That way it would keep the flow
of the composition back into the image. The lizard has become a very important
element in this image, and should be placed exactly right. (Have a look at
Rembrandts anatomy lesson; the book on the right stops all the gazes of the
men.)

The light horizontal line of the edge of the dockside (is that the correct
word?) (in front of the man on the right) is broken by the man and the packages,
but seems a bit even; the stones could perhaps be a little jumbled, and if the
camera is turned slightly, it wouldn't be exactly horizontal as it looks now.

The hill in the background - is it perhaps too bright? I'm thinking it draws the
attention into the middle of the image and not letting the eyes wander around.
The brightest area in an image will often get the most attention.

But maybe I'm wrong about these things, this is your image, after all. I'm
looking forward to the next versions.

H

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On 3-10-2012 3:13, Robert McGregor wrote:
> Thomas, I really like this concept and the scene is coming along beautifully
> (love the grass!).

Thank you Robert! Things are going fine indeed and the more I work on 
the scene, the more there is to do in addition, including rethinking of 
older concepts.

>
> After reading a previous post, where the red sail seemed like a flag, it
> occurred to me that the camera is at the height of sailor's thighs, and a
> slightly higher (+y) camera position really would help to better spacially
> orient the incoming ship, the buildings across the water, and the distant city.
> Of course, a bit of atmospheric haze and focal blur can work wonders too :)

Yes, that might become necessary, although I like the low point of view, 
as if the observer was sitting down. I shall have a few try outs and see 
where this gets me.

There is a faint haze over the whole scene, less visible here than in 
panoramic views because everything is nearer the observer of course. 
However, I can play with this a bit more in this scene, increasing the 
number of controls I have to tweak while exploring the city ;-)

I am not too keen on focal blur in these kind of scenes. I do not want 
to focus on a particular area but leave the viewer the possibility to 
discover his/her own focus as it were.

Thomas

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On 3-10-2012 3:24, helge_h wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
>> A lizard. I have orientated it differently now: more light, less shadows
>> (but not its last transformation I guess).
>
> I like the progress on this image, very impressing. The axis between the two
> men; the invisible line between their eyes is a main composition element that is
> nicely echoed by other lines, and there are lines normal to this (the rope at
> the front of the boat especially) that binds the composition together. The
> clouds make an arc that is echoed in the line of the bright hill in the
> background. The direction of the lines in the foreground also contributes in a
> good way.

Thank you indeed for your careful analysis! You have seen things I had 
not been aware of. Some compositional elements happen just by chance 
(the clouds for instance), others seem to be more or less subconsciously 
controlled.

>
> A few points on the composition, if I may: the lizard seems to me to point out
> of the image. I believe it would be better if its nose was turned to maybe seven
> or eight o'clock (in the image plane, that is). That way it would keep the flow
> of the composition back into the image. The lizard has become a very important
> element in this image, and should be placed exactly right. (Have a look at
> Rembrandts anatomy lesson; the book on the right stops all the gazes of the
> men.)

Like I said, the lizard's position was not yet fixed and I fully agree 
with your observation. In the mean time, I have already rotated it 
inwards to the scene. I scaled it a bit down too.

>
> The light horizontal line of the edge of the dockside (is that the correct
> word?) (in front of the man on the right) is broken by the man and the packages,
> but seems a bit even; the stones could perhaps be a little jumbled, and if the
> camera is turned slightly, it wouldn't be exactly horizontal as it looks now.

At present, the quay edge consists of a simple image_map (within a more 
complex layered texture of course) on a rather simple mesh. For this 
view, I agree that the stones need a more interesting aspect. Can easily 
be implemented :-). This viewpoint is very straightforward and a bit of 
camera rotation is certainly a must here.

>
> The hill in the background - is it perhaps too bright? I'm thinking it draws the
> attention into the middle of the image and not letting the eyes wander around.
> The brightest area in an image will often get the most attention.

Yes. The texture of the hills has not really changed since I began 
working on this project. I agree about the brightness (and some other 
things too I have in mind). The texture needs an overhaul.

>
> But maybe I'm wrong about these things, this is your image, after all. I'm
> looking forward to the next versions.

No, you are perfectly right and I think that I would have made some 
transformations in that direction anyway, but it is good to hear it from 
somebody else, giving confirmation to doubts or enabling me to see 
things I have been blind to. Thank you for this.

There is still a lot of work to do on this scene, in terms of 
(additional) objects, textures, layout... and story telling.

Thomas

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Le 03/10/2012 09:42, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> Yes, that might become necessary, although I like the low point of view,
> as if the observer was sitting down. I shall have a few try outs and see
> where this gets me.

I like it too, but not as the observer is sitting: the observer is on a
small boat on the otherside of the quay, maybe stepping up on that quay
soon.

I'm still hesitant on one point: the moire that appears on the parcels.
It is somehow ok, as reflecting the texture of the material (not in
Pov-sdl meaning),yet it's an artefact shooting loud about computer graphics.

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Le_Forgeron wrote:
> I'm still hesitant on one point: the moire that appears on the parcels.
> It is somehow ok, as reflecting the texture of the material (not in
> Pov-sdl meaning),yet it's an artefact shooting loud about computer graphics.

I see it more as a common digital/video artifact, not specific to CG. More AA?

http://www.ishootshows.com/2012/04/09/understanding-moire-patterns-in-digital-photography/

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On 3-10-2012 10:06, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Le 03/10/2012 09:42, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
>> Yes, that might become necessary, although I like the low point of view,
>> as if the observer was sitting down. I shall have a few try outs and see
>> where this gets me.
>
> I like it too, but not as the observer is sitting: the observer is on a
> small boat on the otherside of the quay, maybe stepping up on that quay
> soon.

No, there is no water behind the observer; there is the extension of the 
city walls, so the observer /is/ sitting down in this version ;-)

>
> I'm still hesitant on one point: the moire that appears on the parcels.
> It is somehow ok, as reflecting the texture of the material (not in
> Pov-sdl meaning),yet it's an artefact shooting loud about computer graphics.

I don't know what to do about it. It is the cloth texture image_map and 
normal_map doing this of course. One possibility is making the cloth 
coarser.

Thomas

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