Gena Obukhov wrote:

> New version with some details.
> Added wooden posts and changed light source position.


Nice posts. Don't we need some more steps at the lower edge of the image?

/Ib

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Peter Popov wrote:

> 
> I think the figures in the boats are not up to the same level of
> detail as the other parts of the picture, even as compared to the
> figures on the stairs. No offense to the contributor, 

No offense taken.  Early on I feared that it might come to this, 
especially when we started talking about rendering in poster size.
It wasn't what I'd bargained for when I took on resposibility for the 
figures.  I thought originally that a fairly brief handling would suffice.
What I would like to do is slide up to the Metropolitan and take a look 
at how figures are usually handled in this genre.  I don't know if they 
have a Marlow but they do have a nice group of Canaletto's.  Maybe I can 
see some details of clothing more clearly.
I probably should have done this already, but every time I go up there I 
get drawn in by the primitive collections.  Was just up there on Friday 
soaking up the Art of Ancient Cities exhibit along with the African 
Masks, as usual :)  Anyway, the comment about the level of detail in the 
figures is a valid one.  Just give me a little time to think about how 
best to solve it.  If I don't think I can, I will gladly hand off any 
sources and responsibilities to others.

-Jim

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Jim Charter wrote:

> at how figures are usually handled in this genre.  I don't know if they
> have a Marlow but they do have a nice group of Canaletto's.

BTW, I found that Marlow's painting in the book about Canaletto :)

Gena.

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Gena wrote:
> Jim Charter wrote:
> 
> 
>>at how figures are usually handled in this genre.  I don't know if they
>>have a Marlow but they do have a nice group of Canaletto's.
> 
> 
> BTW, I found that Marlow's painting in the book about Canaletto :)
> 
> Gena.
> 
Well I ahve to laugh at myself again.  It turns out there was only one 
Canaletto and the group I thought were by him were actually by Guardi. 
Never-the-less I made a couple of dozen sketches from figure groups in 
the Canaletto ( View of St Mark's ) and came to a humble appreciation of 
the balance he strikes between explicit and suggested detail.  This 
balance is weighted much more toward the explicit in raytracing I think. 
  Anyway I will take a stab at improving my figures.  It is going to 
lead to heavier meshes and higher res bitmaps though.

-Jim

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Jim Charter wrote:

>   Anyway I will take a stab at improving my figures.

Maybe it makes sense to start from image/bump maps (?)
Also try to add slightly different colors to the clothes to make
it more colorful. My teacher of painting always told me that
there is no white snow :)


> It is going to lead to heavier meshes and higher res bitmaps though.

I suspect we will need very powerful machine for the final
rendering :)

Gena.

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How do people feel about this level of detail in the figure?

BTW how large would this figure actually be on the hardcopy?

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Jim Charter wrote:

> How do people feel about this level of detail in the figure?
>
> BTW how large would this figure actually be on the hardcopy?

It's a good level of details already. This figure will be approximately
the same size as in your image if the whole image will be 7440 in
height.

I see that you are tolerant to criticism, so let me also add some
critisism, hopefully constructive :) See attached image.

My general impression is that the whole figure is a bit extended. I
would call it El Greco style :) Your initial intention to keep head:body
proportion as 1:8 is not presented here.

1. Face size is too small. That's why it looks a bit childish to me :)
2. I think this is UV mapping artefact.
I would added a little bit in 3, 6, 8 and removed at 4.
5, 7 - These parts look a bit wrong to me.

Anyway, it'a good level of details already :)

Gena.

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Jim Charter wrote:

> How do people feel about this level of detail in the figure?


The level of detail looks good to me. The figure as such may need some 
work, as Gena has pointed out. He looks a bit too youthful and relaxed 
compared to the guy in the painting.

> BTW how large would this figure actually be on the hardcopy?


Taking Zazzles colossal size as the target, which is almost 2 meters 
tall, the figure in the boat would be about 10 cm. Of course the viewing 
distance of a print that size would probably be more that the usual arms 
length.

/Ib

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Gena Obukhov wrote:

> I see that you are tolerant to criticism, so let me also add some
> critisism, hopefully constructive :) See attached image.
> 
These are the first full figures I have ever attempted*, criticism is 
invaluable.
Thanks for taking the time to include the diagram, specific examples are 
much more valuable than general comments. If it's alright with you I 
would like to use the same critical process with the other figures too. 
   Generally I think my difficulty comes with the need to envision the 
figures in more detail than is given in the painting.  I am much more 
mimetic than synthetic in artistic temperament. So I can use all the 
help I can get.  The foreground family in particular is going to be huge 
in comparison to the size of foreground figures in a Canaletto for instance.

*Today my ten year old daughter just pitched her first ever inning of 
baseball.  She struck out one batter then walked in five runs.  But she
came back in the bottom of the inning and hit a homerun!

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> Taking Zazzles colossal size as the target, which is almost 2 meters 
> tall, the figure in the boat would be about 10 cm.

Jeez I'm glad I asked!  The foreground family are going to be huge then.

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