Okay, well with little over a month to go to the deadline for the current IRTC
round, I have managed to get a character that walks. Wow! uh... yeah... I've not
been able to spend as much time povving as I'd like to, but I still think I can
get this into some kind of nice animation for the competition deadline.

Anyway, that's not the point of this post. I'm also planning on developing this
into some kind of comprehensive pov-based character animation system, primarily
for my own use but if it's good then I'll gladly share it!

So, what I'd like is suggestions on where to go from here. At present the
character is animated using positions of base points (hands, feet, and waist),
which are currently following a collection of sine curves. I'm thinking the
things to look at immediately are:
1/ using splines to animate the control points
2/ adding joints to those stretchy limbs
3/ getting him to do something more interesting, like dancing maybe!

I'd really appreciate your suggestions on what else could be improved, what
things look good and what doesn't, and just generally any ideas you folks have
for where I should take this.

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'step000.m1v.mpg' (294 KB)

Clearly everyone's too busy working on their own entries... oh well I won once,
what more can I expect?
;)

Nah I'm just kidding I know this group doesn't get a lot of traffic. But
seriously, any and all suggestions for my character animation attempt would be
much appreciated, as you can see it has a long way to go...

-- 
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com

"Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote in message news:40c17295@news.povray.org...
> Okay, well with little over a month to go to the deadline for the current IRTC
> round, I have managed to get a character that walks. Wow! uh... yeah... I've
not
> been able to spend as much time povving as I'd like to, but I still think I
can
> get this into some kind of nice animation for the competition deadline.
>
> Anyway, that's not the point of this post. I'm also planning on developing
this
> into some kind of comprehensive pov-based character animation system,
primarily
> for my own use but if it's good then I'll gladly share it!
>
> So, what I'd like is suggestions on where to go from here. At present the
> character is animated using positions of base points (hands, feet, and waist),
> which are currently following a collection of sine curves. I'm thinking the
> things to look at immediately are:
> 1/ using splines to animate the control points
> 2/ adding joints to those stretchy limbs
> 3/ getting him to do something more interesting, like dancing maybe!
>
> I'd really appreciate your suggestions on what else could be improved, what
> things look good and what doesn't, and just generally any ideas you folks have
> for where I should take this.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -- 
> Tek
> www.evilsuperbrain.com
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 22:32:52 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
wrote:

> But seriously, any and all suggestions for my character animation attempt would be
>much appreciated, as you can see it has a long way to go...

Opps! Really meant to reply. I don't know how you got such
naturalistic movement from a stiff legged model. It looks good. To me,
it seems obvious that you need to add joints and feet. But you
mentioned that already So there is little I can add. (Maybe that's why
I did not post before) I will wait with interest for further
developments. Perhaps we can watch him grow up just as we have watched
Greg's Blobman take its first tottering steps to dancing the night
away. Staying out late and worrying its good parents :-}


Regards
        Stephen

Post a reply to this message

This is how I have mine set up:

1. individual transformations for "thich", "forearm", "head", "toe tip",
etc.
2. The transformations take one from the "default pose" to whatever is
indicated by other criteria, such as a macro for hand position which then
drives an IK calc, etc.
3.  Then the body is constructed. Each element, whether a single sphere in a
blob construction or a bicibuc patch element, gets built this way:
      Construction_in_default_position    texture{Forearmtexture}
transform{Forearmtransform}.

Post a reply to this message

So do you mean that you have a heirarchy of transforms, so if you change the arm
transform the hand moves, or are the transforms independant but calculated by
your IK to make sure the parts meet up?

Conventional animation systems have a bone hierarchy, but I'm curious as to
whether it might be worth trying something different. My system at the moment is
too simple to need transforms, it just uses independently positioned joints,
hence the stretchy limbs. A little IK will be the next stage, so I need to start
thinking about hierarchies or whatever...

-- 
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com

"Greg M. Johnson" <gregj;-)565### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
news:40c7d41c$1@news.povray.org...
> This is how I have mine set up:
>
> 1. individual transformations for "thich", "forearm", "head", "toe tip",
> etc.
> 2. The transformations take one from the "default pose" to whatever is
> indicated by other criteria, such as a macro for hand position which then
> drives an IK calc, etc.
> 3.  Then the body is constructed. Each element, whether a single sphere in a
> blob construction or a bicibuc patch element, gets built this way:
>       Construction_in_default_position    texture{Forearmtexture}
> transform{Forearmtransform}.
>
>
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

> Opps! Really meant to reply. I don't know how you got such
> naturalistic movement from a stiff legged model. It looks good. To me,
> it seems obvious that you need to add joints and feet.

Well, I realise this perhaps doesn't answer your question, but here's the
animation code:

#declare walkPhase = clock;
someGuy(
 //waist
 <1-cos(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),cos(4*walkPhase*pi),0>*<.02,.02,0>,
 //lwrist

<1+cos(4*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),1-cos(4*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),-sin(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi)
>*<.05,.1,.2>+<.15,-.25,0>,
 //rwrist

<-1-cos(4*walkPhase*pi),1-cos(4*walkPhase*pi),-sin(2*walkPhase*pi)>*<.05,.1,.2>+
<-.15,-.25,0>,
 //lfoot

<1+sin(2*walkPhase*pi),1-cos(2*walkPhase*pi),-sin(2*walkPhase*pi)>*<.05,.1,.2>+<
.05,-1,0>,
 //rfoot

<-1-sin(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),1-cos(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi),-sin(2*(walkPhase+.5)*pi
)>*<.02,.1,.2>+<-.05,-1,0>
)

Then I just position blocks between those points. Not exactly a general purpose
solution, but sine curves can give pretty natural movement if you don't mind
controlling animation using such an ugly mass of numbers. I definitely think
splines would be an improvement, though I rather like the mathemeatical
simplicity of this aproach.

And I still haven't found time to do any more animation!... maybe I should just
tweak this walk a bit, then clone the guy a load of times and make a marching
army? That's sort of dancing. ish. (apologies in advance if I bring down the
tone of the competition with such a lazy entry!).

-- 
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com


"Stephen McAvoy" <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
news:2gidc0tukh81srso46qd0ci5retsvsuto6@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 22:32:52 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
> wrote:
>
> > But seriously, any and all suggestions for my character animation attempt
would be
> >much appreciated, as you can see it has a long way to go...
>
> Opps! Really meant to reply. I don't know how you got such
> naturalistic movement from a stiff legged model. It looks good. To me,
> it seems obvious that you need to add joints and feet. But you
> mentioned that already So there is little I can add. (Maybe that's why
> I did not post before) I will wait with interest for further
> developments. Perhaps we can watch him grow up just as we have watched
> Greg's Blobman take its first tottering steps to dancing the night
> away. Staying out late and worrying its good parents :-}
>
>
> Regards
>         Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:27:14 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
wrote:

>Well, I realise this perhaps doesn't answer your question, but here's the
>animation code:

You couldn't answer much more fully. Thanks I'll take some time to
analyse the wibbles and wobbles.

>Then I just position blocks between those points. Not exactly a general purpose
>solution, but sine curves can give pretty natural movement if you don't mind
>controlling animation using such an ugly mass of numbers. I definitely think
>splines would be an improvement, though I rather like the mathemeatical
>simplicity of this aproach.

I think the mass of numbers approach would be quite limiting. You
would have to re-formulate for every new type of motion. Would you
not? IMO, IK is the way to go. Using splines for the end points 

> then clone the guy a load of times and make a marching army

Hey! I thought I was being original doing that. :-}
I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
View not a new version :-}

Regards
        Stephen

Post a reply to this message

There is a transformation hierarchy,  where if you were to change the elbow
rotation, the fingertips would move accordingly .  But I've also got an
optional IK system set up where one could chose an absolute point in space
for the position of the wrist.



"Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom> wrote in message
news:40c80a6f@news.povray.org...
> So do you mean that you have a heirarchy of transforms, so if you change
the arm
> transform the hand moves, or are the transforms independant but calculated
by
> your IK to make sure the parts meet up?
>
> Conventional animation systems have a bone hierarchy, but I'm curious as
to
> whether it might be worth trying something different. My system at the
moment is
> too simple to need transforms, it just uses independently positioned
joints,
> hence the stretchy limbs. A little IK will be the next stage, so I need to
start
> thinking about hierarchies or whatever...
>
> -- 
> Tek
> www.evilsuperbrain.com
>
> "Greg M. Johnson" <gregj;-)565### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
> news:40c7d41c$1@news.povray.org...
> > This is how I have mine set up:
> >
> > 1. individual transformations for "thich", "forearm", "head", "toe tip",
> > etc.
> > 2. The transformations take one from the "default pose" to whatever is
> > indicated by other criteria, such as a macro for hand position which
then
> > drives an IK calc, etc.
> > 3.  Then the body is constructed. Each element, whether a single sphere
in a
> > blob construction or a bicibuc patch element, gets built this way:
> >       Construction_in_default_position    texture{Forearmtexture}
> > transform{Forearmtransform}.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Tek, consider:

http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.scene-files/thread/%3C3bd4d693%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=193121&toff=350

(apologies for the hideous URL syntax)

But it's the basic concepts for my MIME Man system.  I've been thinking
about "releasing" something close to the latest version, but actually I
think what I shared a few years ago would get you over your immediate next
hump.

Happy tracing.

Greg M. Johnson

Post a reply to this message

> I think the mass of numbers approach would be quite limiting. You
> would have to re-formulate for every new type of motion. Would you
> not? IMO, IK is the way to go. Using splines for the end points

well IK could be used with this mass of numbers... but you're right that it's
way to restrictive. But it has tought me a lot about the subtleties of the
movement. e.g. he actually moves slightly from side to side as he walks, to
shift his weight onto either foot. It's hardly noticeable from this angle, but
it makes a huge difference to how natural the movement looks.

> I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
> View not a new version :-}

Good for you! I'm close to giving up on this round, I just won't have time. I
was at my "day" job 'til 10pm tonight, and this weekend I'm moving house! If I'm
lucky I might get maybe 20 hours more on this before the deadline :(

Still, I won't give up on the character animation system, I can use that in any
animation.

-- 
Tek
www.evilsuperbrain.com

"Stephen McAvoy" <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
news:ksagc0homkhdeb0hqvophbb9ld3lajlkb1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:27:14 -0700, "Tek" <tek### [at] evilsuperbraincom>
> wrote:
>
> >Well, I realise this perhaps doesn't answer your question, but here's the
> >animation code:
>
> You couldn't answer much more fully. Thanks I'll take some time to
> analyse the wibbles and wobbles.
>
> >Then I just position blocks between those points. Not exactly a general
purpose
> >solution, but sine curves can give pretty natural movement if you don't mind
> >controlling animation using such an ugly mass of numbers. I definitely think
> >splines would be an improvement, though I rather like the mathemeatical
> >simplicity of this aproach.
>
> I think the mass of numbers approach would be quite limiting. You
> would have to re-formulate for every new type of motion. Would you
> not? IMO, IK is the way to go. Using splines for the end points
>
> > then clone the guy a load of times and make a marching army
>
> Hey! I thought I was being original doing that. :-}
> I've finished my scene just trying to find a good POV. That's Point of
> View not a new version :-}
>
> Regards
>         Stephen

Post a reply to this message