On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:27:06 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
<gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:

>IMBJR wrote:
>> Chris wrote:
>>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
>>>     some space on some free provider.
>>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
>>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
>>  for exhibition.
>>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
>
>This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
>Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is

Good, because the NPS seems to have little idea on how to conserve
what it's got (way too much traffic, unlike my little spill) and
Central Park ... has it still got a crime problem, or has Zero
Tolerance stamped it out? If this place had Zero Tolerance, then I
would not be able to continue this discussion.

>free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
>you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is

I never treat Usenet as storage, just a pavement where I can prop up
my work for a moment and let the good people going by have a look at
it. Some of them even have constructive comments on the material they
see. As for canned goods, well maybe they are, but they did start out
fresh in the field.

>full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly

Bizarre! I don't recall saying that at all. If such "flooding" is a
problem, then why hasn't the hierarchy come swooping down on me,
either to ask me to cancel my posts (which I notice they, or their
proxies, have asked some else to do), or just delete them themselves
with a warning not to do it again or a complete lock-out. They seem to
have no problem with the quantity. As I have said before, I have
posted more than I did here in other places, and although there was
the odd grumble, nothing happened like it has here, where the knives
have come out and one person even decided to post a forgery of myself
in my stomping ground (alt.binaries.slack). You really should not be
so fragile about this.

>selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
>the church consider getting a lock.

Blimey! You would seriously retreat into some netherworld of closed
doors and secret passwords just because the majority of Usenet users
(or at least the ones I have encountered) do not think as you do? And
by the way, as I have said before, this Church (strange you should
liken it to one, suggesting that you are all somehow Special and
Saved) does have very deep vaults. I've seen some quite old posts here
that indicate that the place can well afford a little tide now and
again - especially if, as someone suggested, the posts here are all
archived for what I assume is perusal elsewhere.

>
>> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
>> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
>> part of the general usenet community.
>
>A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?

You have thrown me. First you say this is not Central Park, and now
you are suggesting it is? Please clarify.

>
>Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
>news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
>of their picnic tables?
>
They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:

1. No such restrictions apply.

2. Some have complained to the hierarchy and they were told to calm
it.

3. The hierarchy is asleep. A dangerous position for yourself: as I
have previously stated elsewhere, this place could very easily become
Spammer Armageddon*. If you suggest this place is self-policed then
that is merely handing out wooden guns to the troops - no one has the
real power to pull the plug on any abuser - only the Server Admin.

* Since the place is remarkably clean of Spam, I think the hierarchy
is not asleep - either that or the spammers have not turned in this
direction yet. Prey in your Church they do not.

PS. If you think space is a premium here then we are wasting it by
this gainsaying, especially since this is a binaries group and not a
place of talk (though I admit some do value the feedback here). If you
reply to this message in this forum then I don't think I will be able
to take you seriously from then on - stick to your principles and
reply via e-mail. Of course if you do reply here, then so shall I as I
have no qualms on that score.


----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

> >If you are not after comments on your work, what *do* you want?
>
> Just a place to exhibit my work.

If this is all you want you can submit to my site the "POV Ray Study
Gallery" I have a Gallery Page that currently does not have a Animation
section, but I can add one easily. As far as space goes, my site is hosted
by Crosswinds. They state that I have unlimited webspace and I really want
to test that!     ;)



C.J. - POV User
POV Ray Study Gallery
www.crosswinds.net/~povstudy

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:47:42 -0700, "C.J."
<hou### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>> >If you are not after comments on your work, what *do* you want?
>>
>> Just a place to exhibit my work.
>
>If this is all you want you can submit to my site the "POV Ray Study
>Gallery" I have a Gallery Page that currently does not have a Animation
>section, but I can add one easily. As far as space goes, my site is hosted
>by Crosswinds. They state that I have unlimited webspace and I really want
>to test that!     ;)

I shall take that into consideration. Please e-mail me details.

>
>
>
>C.J. - POV User
>POV Ray Study Gallery
>www.crosswinds.net/~povstudy
>
>

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote:
>They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
>collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:

It's more like the head trustee or elder came out to the kids blaring their stereos
and storing canned goods on the picnic table and got rebuffed by the kids saying,
"Aw, I can do what I want."  This is how I paint your interaction with Chris Huff.

I took very little pause at your flood of postings but didn't think too much of it
until I saw your attitude, thinking this was just like the usenet.  Plus the REAL
usenet posting encouraging people to tear down this group.  Pardon me not liking that
attitude.

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:15:17 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
<gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:

>IMBJR wrote:
>>They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
>>collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:
>
>It's more like the head trustee or elder came out to the kids blaring their stereos
>and storing canned goods on the picnic table and got rebuffed by the kids saying,
>"Aw, I can do what I want."  This is how I paint your interaction with Chris Huff.

Is Chris Huff an elder? If he is then he should speak up and proclaim
it. There's no pointing trying to slap a wrist if you don't have the
pandy-bat. Plus - and I may be wrong on this one, so correct me if I
am - I have yet to see anything that says "Thou Shalt Not Flood the
POV newserver". In fact Ken in povray.off-topic stated:

"Your material was on topic and in no way in violation of this news
servers policies."

>
>I took very little pause at your flood of postings but didn't think too much of it
>until I saw your attitude, thinking this was just like the usenet.  Plus the REAL

Well, this may not be like real Usenet, but if this is were a foreign
country, then you would be losing valuable tourist-dollars through
displaying of isolationist viewpoints. You would never get new-blood
to come and live and work here.

>usenet posting encouraging people to tear down this group.  Pardon me not liking that
>attitude.

I retracted that statement as being very foolish. However, that did
not stop someone from posting a forgery of myself to
alt.binaries.slack - a fine example of the attitude I found in some of
the replies to my posts. I cerntainly will not be stooping so low and
have been busy tracking that person down.


----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

In article <me8lqs4e1kvbn0d7163hdtlqstljujd77v@4ax.com>, IMBJR 
<imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:

> Is Chris Huff an elder? If he is then he should speak up and proclaim
> it. There's no pointing trying to slap a wrist if you don't have the
> pandy-bat.

I *have* said before that I am a member of the TAG and pointed you to 
the TAG web site(it is even included in my signature). I have also 
pointed to the official documents in 
povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions several times.
Since you seem not to have read those, I will quote the relevant portion:

"TAG members are not members of the POV-Team. But they are, however, an 
official conduit between us and the outside world. They have direct 
access to all members of the POV-Team. They have the right to speak on 
our behalf on the POV news server and on any official mailing lists 
that we set up for this purpose. Not everything they say will be 
official ; only when they sign it as such. They can still act 
'themselves' and have their own opinions at all other times."

I suppose this makes me an "elder", if not part of the "heirarchy".


> Plus - and I may be wrong on this one, so correct me if I am - I have 
> yet to see anything that says "Thou Shalt Not Flood the POV 
> newserver".

People asked you to not flood with large numbers of posts. That should 
have been enough.
Since the initial postings, you have done pretty well in this. :-)


> In fact Ken in povray.off-topic stated:
> "Your material was on topic and in no way in violation of this news
> servers policies."

Your posts were not off-topic or directly against any official rules. In 
fact, some of them seemed quite imaginative, creative, and well done, 
though somewhat lacking in explanation. However, the way you posted them 
doesn't fit with the customs that the users of this server have become 
used to. There have been in-depth discussions in the past about the best 
way to do things, what is considered acceptable, and what is considered 
abuse. While not all of these are written, official rules, it is simply 
polite to not insist on going against them.


> Well, this may not be like real Usenet, but if this is were a foreign
> country, then you would be losing valuable tourist-dollars through
> displaying of isolationist viewpoints. You would never get new-blood
> to come and live and work here.

"Isolationist" is about as far from an accurate description of this 
server as you can get! The people here just don't take well to 
continued, intentional rudeness. We are very open and helpful to new 
users or visitors. Your initial posting would have been regarded as a 
mistake due to ignorance of how things on these groups are usually done 
and it would have been forgiven and forgotten immediately, even by those 
to whom it caused problems. However, your actions and postings since 
then don't encourage good-will toward you. If you take the time to see 
"how things are done" here and don't go against that, you will find a 
very friendly and helpful community. It is *not* that we want everyone 
to be identical and discourage individuality, it is just that we have 
found a middle ground that everyone can live with.

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

the main (or real) problem as i see it is this:  the povray community
that frequents these newsgroups is as tightly knit as it can get over
the internet.  since you don't seem to like church, i'll use a swimming
pool as an analogy.  as new people have come in, they have all waded in,
politely testing the water to see not only what the written rules are
here but the unwritten as well.  they have all made the transition from
newbie in the newsgroups to regular user without much, if any, problem. 
so when you showed up one day (presumably without lurking for long) and
did a canon ball right where everyone was relaxing, people didn't
appreciate it.  these groups are here for community support.  personal
web pages are for showing off.  it is easy to get a ton of free space on
the web.  my brother has twelve geocities accounts, so lack of web space
is a pretty lame excuse to flood the newsgroups here.  i don't mean to
come off as condescending, so don't get me wrong.  we just do things
different from most newsgroups and we like it our way.  so we appreciate
it when newcomers conform.  as for why the 'heirarchy' as you call them
haven't come down on you yet, they are probably waiting to see whether
they have to or not.  most of the people that come through here are or
behave like adults and so we work out most of our problems ourselves. 
if enough people complain however, i'm sure something would be done. 
anyway, hope you don't feel i stepped on your toes.

IMBJR wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:27:06 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
> 
> >IMBJR wrote:
> >> Chris wrote:
> >>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
> >>>     some space on some free provider.
> >>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
> >>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
> >>  for exhibition.
> >>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
> >
> >This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
> >Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is
> 
> Good, because the NPS seems to have little idea on how to conserve
> what it's got (way too much traffic, unlike my little spill) and
> Central Park ... has it still got a crime problem, or has Zero
> Tolerance stamped it out? If this place had Zero Tolerance, then I
> would not be able to continue this discussion.
> 
> >free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
> >you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is
> 
> I never treat Usenet as storage, just a pavement where I can prop up
> my work for a moment and let the good people going by have a look at
> it. Some of them even have constructive comments on the material they
> see. As for canned goods, well maybe they are, but they did start out
> fresh in the field.
> 
> >full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly
> 
> Bizarre! I don't recall saying that at all. If such "flooding" is a
> problem, then why hasn't the hierarchy come swooping down on me,
> either to ask me to cancel my posts (which I notice they, or their
> proxies, have asked some else to do), or just delete them themselves
> with a warning not to do it again or a complete lock-out. They seem to
> have no problem with the quantity. As I have said before, I have
> posted more than I did here in other places, and although there was
> the odd grumble, nothing happened like it has here, where the knives
> have come out and one person even decided to post a forgery of myself
> in my stomping ground (alt.binaries.slack). You really should not be
> so fragile about this.
> 
> >selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
> >the church consider getting a lock.
> 
> Blimey! You would seriously retreat into some netherworld of closed
> doors and secret passwords just because the majority of Usenet users
> (or at least the ones I have encountered) do not think as you do? And
> by the way, as I have said before, this Church (strange you should
> liken it to one, suggesting that you are all somehow Special and
> Saved) does have very deep vaults. I've seen some quite old posts here
> that indicate that the place can well afford a little tide now and
> again - especially if, as someone suggested, the posts here are all
> archived for what I assume is perusal elsewhere.
> 
> >
> >> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
> >> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
> >> part of the general usenet community.
> >
> >A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?
> 
> You have thrown me. First you say this is not Central Park, and now
> you are suggesting it is? Please clarify.
> 
> >
> >Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
> >news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
> >of their picnic tables?
> >
> They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
> collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:
> 
> 1. No such restrictions apply.
> 
> 2. Some have complained to the hierarchy and they were told to calm
> it.
> 
> 3. The hierarchy is asleep. A dangerous position for yourself: as I
> have previously stated elsewhere, this place could very easily become
> Spammer Armageddon*. If you suggest this place is self-policed then
> that is merely handing out wooden guns to the troops - no one has the
> real power to pull the plug on any abuser - only the Server Admin.
> 
> * Since the place is remarkably clean of Spam, I think the hierarchy
> is not asleep - either that or the spammers have not turned in this
> direction yet. Prey in your Church they do not.
> 
> PS. If you think space is a premium here then we are wasting it by
> this gainsaying, especially since this is a binaries group and not a
> place of talk (though I admit some do value the feedback here). If you
> reply to this message in this forum then I don't think I will be able
> to take you seriously from then on - stick to your principles and
> reply via e-mail. Of course if you do reply here, then so shall I as I
> have no qualms on that score.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Symmetry is wrong:
> http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:09:02 -0500, Chris Huff <chr### [at] maccom>
wrote:

>In article <me8lqs4e1kvbn0d7163hdtlqstljujd77v@4ax.com>, IMBJR 
><imb### [at] imbjrcom> wrote:
>
>> Is Chris Huff an elder? If he is then he should speak up and proclaim
>> it. There's no pointing trying to slap a wrist if you don't have the
>> pandy-bat.
>
>I *have* said before that I am a member of the TAG and pointed you to 
>the TAG web site(it is even included in my signature). I have also 
>pointed to the official documents in 
>povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions several times.
>Since you seem not to have read those, I will quote the relevant portion:
>
>"TAG members are not members of the POV-Team. But they are, however, an 
>official conduit between us and the outside world. They have direct 
>access to all members of the POV-Team. They have the right to speak on 
>our behalf on the POV news server and on any official mailing lists 
>that we set up for this purpose. Not everything they say will be 
>official ; only when they sign it as such. They can still act 
>'themselves' and have their own opinions at all other times."
>
>I suppose this makes me an "elder", if not part of the "heirarchy".

I stand corrected. Thanks.

>
>
>> Plus - and I may be wrong on this one, so correct me if I am - I have 
>> yet to see anything that says "Thou Shalt Not Flood the POV 
>> newserver".
>
>People asked you to not flood with large numbers of posts. That should 
>have been enough.
>Since the initial postings, you have done pretty well in this. :-)

Cheers. 

>
>
>> In fact Ken in povray.off-topic stated:
>> "Your material was on topic and in no way in violation of this news
>> servers policies."
>
>Your posts were not off-topic or directly against any official rules. In 
>fact, some of them seemed quite imaginative, creative, and well done, 
>though somewhat lacking in explanation. However, the way you posted them 
>doesn't fit with the customs that the users of this server have become 
>used to. There have been in-depth discussions in the past about the best 
>way to do things, what is considered acceptable, and what is considered 
>abuse. While not all of these are written, official rules, it is simply 
>polite to not insist on going against them.
>
>
>> Well, this may not be like real Usenet, but if this is were a foreign
>> country, then you would be losing valuable tourist-dollars through
>> displaying of isolationist viewpoints. You would never get new-blood
>> to come and live and work here.
>
>"Isolationist" is about as far from an accurate description of this 
>server as you can get! The people here just don't take well to 
>continued, intentional rudeness. We are very open and helpful to new 
>users or visitors. Your initial posting would have been regarded as a 
>mistake due to ignorance of how things on these groups are usually done 
>and it would have been forgiven and forgotten immediately, even by those 
>to whom it caused problems. However, your actions and postings since 
>then don't encourage good-will toward you. If you take the time to see 
>"how things are done" here and don't go against that, you will find a 
>very friendly and helpful community. It is *not* that we want everyone 
>to be identical and discourage individuality, it is just that we have 
>found a middle ground that everyone can live with.

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:10:56 -0700, ryan constantine
<rco### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>the main (or real) problem as i see it is this:  the povray community
>that frequents these newsgroups is as tightly knit as it can get over
>the internet.  since you don't seem to like church, i'll use a swimming
>pool as an analogy.  as new people have come in, they have all waded in,
>politely testing the water to see not only what the written rules are
>here but the unwritten as well.  they have all made the transition from
>newbie in the newsgroups to regular user without much, if any, problem. 
>so when you showed up one day (presumably without lurking for long) and
>did a canon ball right where everyone was relaxing, people didn't
>appreciate it.  these groups are here for community support.  personal
>web pages are for showing off.  it is easy to get a ton of free space on
>the web.  my brother has twelve geocities accounts, so lack of web space
>is a pretty lame excuse to flood the newsgroups here.  i don't mean to

Mm, I must admit that was a weak side to my reasoning!

>come off as condescending, so don't get me wrong.  we just do things
>different from most newsgroups and we like it our way.  so we appreciate
>it when newcomers conform.  as for why the 'heirarchy' as you call them
>haven't come down on you yet, they are probably waiting to see whether
>they have to or not.  most of the people that come through here are or
>behave like adults and so we work out most of our problems ourselves. 
>if enough people complain however, i'm sure something would be done. 
>anyway, hope you don't feel i stepped on your toes.

Not at all, thanks for listening to me rant.

>
>IMBJR wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:27:06 -0400, "Greg M. Johnson"
>> <gre### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote:
>> 
>> >IMBJR wrote:
>> >> Chris wrote:
>> >>>     That *is* a problem...but it shouldn't be too difficult to get
>> >>>     some space on some free provider.
>> >>  It is easy, and I do have some, but it is taken up with other
>> >>  material. However, as I have stated before I prefer Usenet
>> >>  for exhibition.
>> >>>> Mmm, it is because it works by the NTTP protocol - which makes it usenet.
>> >
>> >This ain't the usenet, it's not like the National Park Service or Central
>> >Park.   It's more like a sheltered picnic table on a church's property, which is
>> 
>> Good, because the NPS seems to have little idea on how to conserve
>> what it's got (way too much traffic, unlike my little spill) and
>> Central Park ... has it still got a crime problem, or has Zero
>> Tolerance stamped it out? If this place had Zero Tolerance, then I
>> would not be able to continue this discussion.
>> 
>> >free for public use on weekdays, within certain guidelines. You come in and say
>> >you want to store a few cases of canned goods on it, because your pantry is
>> 
>> I never treat Usenet as storage, just a pavement where I can prop up
>> my work for a moment and let the good people going by have a look at
>> it. Some of them even have constructive comments on the material they
>> see. As for canned goods, well maybe they are, but they did start out
>> fresh in the field.
>> 
>> >full.  Your main justification is that you can get away with it.  How incredibly
>> 
>> Bizarre! I don't recall saying that at all. If such "flooding" is a
>> problem, then why hasn't the hierarchy come swooping down on me,
>> either to ask me to cancel my posts (which I notice they, or their
>> proxies, have asked some else to do), or just delete them themselves
>> with a warning not to do it again or a complete lock-out. They seem to
>> have no problem with the quantity. As I have said before, I have
>> posted more than I did here in other places, and although there was
>> the odd grumble, nothing happened like it has here, where the knives
>> have come out and one person even decided to post a forgery of myself
>> in my stomping ground (alt.binaries.slack). You really should not be
>> so fragile about this.
>> 
>> >selfish.  You point to the lack of a lock on the door as justification, making
>> >the church consider getting a lock.
>> 
>> Blimey! You would seriously retreat into some netherworld of closed
>> doors and secret passwords just because the majority of Usenet users
>> (or at least the ones I have encountered) do not think as you do? And
>> by the way, as I have said before, this Church (strange you should
>> liken it to one, suggesting that you are all somehow Special and
>> Saved) does have very deep vaults. I've seen some quite old posts here
>> that indicate that the place can well afford a little tide now and
>> again - especially if, as someone suggested, the posts here are all
>> archived for what I assume is perusal elsewhere.
>> 
>> >
>> >> Yes, it is privately owned (like virtually all news servers: commercially,
>> >> academically, or even as a hobby) - it is not private though. It still forms
>> >> part of the general usenet community.
>> >
>> >A picnic table with no lock means it's Central Park, right ?
>> 
>> You have thrown me. First you say this is not Central Park, and now
>> you are suggesting it is? Please clarify.
>> 
>> >
>> >Do private servers---from usenet ones like Deja.com to non-usenet ones like
>> >news.povray.org--- have the right to decide the terms of the public's free use
>> >of their picnic tables?
>> >
>> They do have the right, but as I have stated above, I have not had my
>> collar felt by the hierarchy. So I can assume one of the following:
>> 
>> 1. No such restrictions apply.
>> 
>> 2. Some have complained to the hierarchy and they were told to calm
>> it.
>> 
>> 3. The hierarchy is asleep. A dangerous position for yourself: as I
>> have previously stated elsewhere, this place could very easily become
>> Spammer Armageddon*. If you suggest this place is self-policed then
>> that is merely handing out wooden guns to the troops - no one has the
>> real power to pull the plug on any abuser - only the Server Admin.
>> 
>> * Since the place is remarkably clean of Spam, I think the hierarchy
>> is not asleep - either that or the spammers have not turned in this
>> direction yet. Prey in your Church they do not.
>> 
>> PS. If you think space is a premium here then we are wasting it by
>> this gainsaying, especially since this is a binaries group and not a
>> place of talk (though I admit some do value the feedback here). If you
>> reply to this message in this forum then I don't think I will be able
>> to take you seriously from then on - stick to your principles and
>> reply via e-mail. Of course if you do reply here, then so shall I as I
>> have no qualms on that score.
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Symmetry is wrong:
>> http://www.imbjr.com

----------------------------------------------------
Symmetry is wrong:
http://www.imbjr.com

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> by Crosswinds. They state that I have unlimited webspace and I really want
> to test that!     ;)
Of course it can't be really unlimited, but I know someone who
uploaded more than 500MB there.

ZK
http://www.povplace.be.tf

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