"Tom Galvin" <tom### [at] imporg> wrote in message
news:Xns9484AA88EFB6Btomatimporg@203.29.75.35...
> "Dan P" <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote in
> news:40200575$1@news.povray.org:
>
> >
> > No, no, no, read it -- words have meanings -- I say SGI isn't
> > clamoring, I'm not saying other people aren't. However, because there
> > is so much on-the-line for Microsoft, I think DirectX will surpass
> > OpenGL.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think we will see, DirectX
> for Linux or Mac anytime soon.  IMHO, the industry is shifting back to
> multiple platforms and open standards.  MS is a bit late for the party.  A
> few more quarters like the last few should bring them around.

Thorsten -- take notes and laminate them. This is how you reply to an
opinion thread.

I respect your opinion, Tom, and I hope you are right. I'd rather see OpenGL
be the dominant force out there, even if it is made by SGI. After all, I
don't really like either of the companies, but if I have to choose one over
the other, it would be SGI.

/Even if I do think .NET is a wonderful thing and am using DirectX now not
for reasons that I am some Microsoft zealot, but because I want to use the
full power of my video card./

Civil discourse. I love it. Thank you Tom, you made my night and brought
hope back to me. You too, Warp, btw, because you were always civil as well,
albeit as arrogant as I was :-) But when you make the stuff you have, you
have a right to be arrogant (moreso when I talk to you because, even though
we might have some differences, I still consider you a personal hero for
your targa averager and obvious and well backed-up understanding of C).

In fact, Thorsten has a right to be arrogant too, being on the official
POV-Ray team. Arrogance begets arrogance and it can be fun. I'm not sure
what role Thorsten played on the team, but I'm going to bet on him not being
the guy who bought the donuts and poured the coffee. I don't think that guy
gets listed on the messages screen (unless he bought really, really nice
donuts).

I think this thread is actually over now.

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"Dan P" <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote in
news:40203941$1@news.povray.org: 


> 
> Thorsten -- take notes and laminate them. This is how you reply to an
> opinion thread.
> 


Don't put me on a pedastal.  I have been known to wake up on the wrong side 
of the bed and make posts before getting coffee ;)


-- 
Tom
_________________________________
The Internet Movie Project
http://www.imp.org/

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In article <40203941$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P" 
<dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> Appreciating them. This
> is a tough concept for you, I can tell, since everything I say you get
> defensive over.

It still did not occur to you that I just don't care discussing your
so-called "facts" with you, do you?  And I am not the one having to prove
anything either; neither that your so-called "facts" are none nor that I
know more than you do about the topics of discussion.  POV-Ray in itself is
sufficient for showing that I have substantial knowledge.  Yet, what do you
have to show?  Just because someone does not want to argue with someone else
does not imply he/she cannot "debunk" that argument.  For my part, if I
would try to do that for every incorrect claim posted such that the person
making that claim would understand it, I would be written 50 pages a week.
So, there is a point where you either accept my word or don't.  After all, I
have demonstrated understanding of 3D graphics and cross-platform
development.

Of course, others with more time may want to help you learn, but this is
povray.advanced-users, so I don't think teaching that kind of stuff belongs
here.

> In fact, Thorsten has a right to be arrogant too, being on the official
> POV-Ray team. Arrogance begets arrogance and it can be fun. I'm not sure
> what role Thorsten played on the team, but I'm going to bet on him not being
> the guy who bought the donuts and poured the coffee. I don't think that guy
> gets listed on the messages screen (unless he bought really, really nice
> donuts).

You obviously know nothing about me.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> babbles in message
news:402054b1@news.povray.org...
> In article <40203941$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P"
> <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> It still did not occur to you that I just don't care discussing your
> so-called "facts" with you, do you?  And I am not the one having to prove
> anything either; neither that your so-called "facts" are none nor that I
> know more than you do about the topics of discussion.  POV-Ray in itself
is
> sufficient for showing that I have substantial knowledge.  Yet, what do
you
> have to show?  Just because someone does not want to argue with someone
else
> does not imply he/she cannot "debunk" that argument.  For my part, if I
> would try to do that for every incorrect claim posted such that the person
> making that claim would understand it, I would be written 50 pages a week.
> So, there is a point where you either accept my word or don't.  After all,
I
> have demonstrated understanding of 3D graphics and cross-platform
> development.

So...why...do...you...keep...talking!!!?

> Of course, others with more time may want to help you learn, but this is
> povray.advanced-users, so I don't think teaching that kind of stuff
belongs
> here.
>
> > In fact, Thorsten has a right to be arrogant too, being on the official
> > POV-Ray team. Arrogance begets arrogance and it can be fun. I'm not sure
> > what role Thorsten played on the team, but I'm going to bet on him not
being
> > the guy who bought the donuts and poured the coffee. I don't think that
guy
> > gets listed on the messages screen (unless he bought really, really nice
> > donuts).
>
> You obviously know nothing about me.

Well, I don't know if you like jelly or sprinkles, or if you serve it decaf
or espresso, but I do know you work on the Macintosh version of POV-Ray and
you spend inordinate amounts of time bitching about how you don't have
enough time and don't want to support people because they're so beneath you.
Please, Thorsten, don't kill POV-Ray with your attitude, okay? Lots of
people contributed to POV-Ray, not just you, and they're not being jerks
about it. It only leads me to believe that you need people to consider your
role more important than it is.

But I guess everybody needs donuts.

Thorsten, if you need attention, why don't you buy a dog? This is a
community, not a personal "Thorsten is Better than You(TM)" campaign. I'm
personally getting tired of this thread. If you want to keep going back and
forth, great, whatever; it's entertainment. But really, this ego-sponging of
yours is getting tiring and if you would stop all the lip and get crackin',
maybe we'll get to be reminded how great you are when 4.0 comes out. Hey,
then you won't be on the short-list!!!

PS: Is this some kind of hazing you do or someting to people? You really
remind me of a roomate I had. He was 450 pounds, unemployed, didn't shower,
literally ate his own nose mucus, and was an ass to everybody, yet all
fragile when anybody said anything back. Now, I'm not saying your 450
pounds, unemployed, don't shower, eat your nose candy, but given what an ass
you are to everybody, and how fragile your ego appears to be, I'm forming a
not too flattering picture in my mind. But, you can't win em all over, eh?

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"Dan P" <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:401d7ed5$1@news.povray.org...
> I've decided to ultimately answer this thread by writing the software.
> This is my last reply on this opinion thread.

You guys have convinced me to create a level of abstraction in my code so
that it is not too tightly bound to DirectX. After I create it in Direct3D
(and learn it as a result), I will move on to extending it to OpenGL (and
learn that as well too). No, I don't know these interfaces very well, but
I'll learn from this experience. Even if I don't wind up putting OpenGL in
myself, it gives someone else an easier time doing so when I release the
source.

Now, I suppose I could say that I'll do this only if reality doesn't get in
the way, namely finishing my Masters and getting my Doctorate (in Comp
Sci/Scientific, TF, if you must know, not that it matters), but I don't like
to make excuses like that. Instead, after (if) I get a working framework up,
we can get involved in a community of interest, even if my first experiences
with this community have been less than stellar and might turn off other
people to the whole thing. I suspect most of you are reasonable, intelligent
people who are willing to build up the field, regardless of the larger
voices that seem to shout over the crowd. The overwhelming proof supports
this perception.

I have loved and used POV-Ray (even the Mac version, TF!) for more than a
decade and am looking forward to contributing to it somehow if I have the
moxy. POV-Ray rules.

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:402054b1@news.povray.org...
> In article <40203941$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P"
> <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> You obviously know nothing about me.

I looked you up and, wow, I didn't realize how fresh out of school you were.
You graduated with a BS in 2001? I'm really sorry, man, I didn't mean to get
old-school on you. I just assumed you had more experience based on your
attitude. When I said I've been working with POV-ray (and other 3D
applications) for almost a decade, I wasn't commenting on your experience or
anything. I really /was/ expecting a big long resume of amazing projects,
not a vague link to the Mac POV-ray site. You should take comfort in the
fact that you actually convinced me you must be all-that!!! Hey, maybe you
still are.

I know how Illinois can make some people jaded, being born in Wisconsin. We
think it's all that flat land. But, you're all our |F|riendly |I|llinois
|B|uddie|s|. It looks like you went to a good school, though. Things'll work
out. Hang in there, buddy. You'll make a big splash and laugh at all this in
five or so years.

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Dan P <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> I looked you up and, wow, I didn't realize how fresh out of school you were.
> You graduated with a BS in 2001?

  I got my MSc degree in computing science last summmer. Are you going
to tell me I'm "fresh out of school" as well?

  I don't understand how the date of your university graduation has to
do anything with your experience in 3D programming. It tells nothing
about how many years of experience you have (or even your age). Someone
can perfectly have 20 years of experience in programming and then
get a university degree. I don't see anything strange in that.

  Your personal attacks are not wise. Do you think you are going to gain
respect with that?

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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Don't take this too personal, but if your programming experience is
at the level shown at the beginning of this thread, don't put your own
expectations too high.
  Making a graphical modeller is *DIFFICULT*, much much more difficult
than a command-line image averaging program.
  It's of course a good personal project, but don't expect it to be
a good piece of software for wider audience. (Not even if you made
it closed-source; you would probably not believe how difficult
maintaining and upgrading a program of that magnitude can be, and
you'll have to do that a lot if you expect it to become a popular
program.)
  Experience in developing and maintaining bigger programs is quite
crucial in this kind of projects. This needs years of studying and
programming experience.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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On 3 Feb 2004 16:47:04 -0500, Tom Galvin <tom### [at] imporg> wrote:
> You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think we will see, DirectX 
> for Linux or Mac anytime soon.  IMHO, the industry is shifting back to 
> multiple platforms and open standards.  MS is a bit late for the party.  A 
> few more quarters like the last few should bring them around.

http://www.khronos.org/opengles/spec.html

ABX

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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:13:24 -0800, Darren <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Actually, I'm curious about this. If the API changes 90% with each 
> version, how is it that a game that runs with DirectX7 installed 
> continues to run when upgrading to DirectX8 and DirectX9?

I do not know how DirectX is builded but it's easy to make it with shared
libraries on Windowses (DLLs). Every next version can install own DLLs as well
as DLLs of previous versions. Again, I do not know if this is the case of
DirectX.

ABX

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