hi xander,
i got one or two wishes for your great animation plugin:

1.
up to now, the interpolation between the keys can be:
step, linear and cubic.
i find it difficult to control the path when using cubic. is the
interpolation done with an x^2-function? what about trying with x^3?
(doing this with my self-written macros for povray, i got much better
results with nearly no "swing-over" (hope you know what i mean?) 

2.
a "random-interpolation"
this is no real interpolation but it would be nice and helpful (i
think):
the values of the keys just tell the width of the random field (let me
call it worf):
for example: the object has a key-value of 5 for its x-translation. with
the "random-interpolation" the object is placed randomly somewhere
between 0 and 5. if there are more than one key (you ALWAYS have more
than one) the worf-values are interpolated linear.

3.
possibility to type in a mathematical function (this could be done in
the timeline-window).
f.e.: z_translate = sin (2*pi*current_frame)

4.
at the timeline (i know you are still working on) there could be the
possibility to set two (or more) paths (timelines)for an objects
transformation which can be linked with "+" or "*".
for example: the first path translates the object from x=2 to x=100
while the second path translates it between values of x=-0.5 and x=0.5.
link the two paths with "+" and the result is a main move with some
little extra zig-zags (like a flying insect or so)
i know the same result could be reached with only one path but if you
think about including wish 2 and/or 3, wish 4 will increase controlpower
very much.

well, i got warm while writting, so it's three or four wishes. never
mind...
alex

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Alex Wolff wrote:
> 
> hi xander,
> i got one or two wishes for your great animation plugin:
> 
> 1.
> up to now, the interpolation between the keys can be:
> step, linear and cubic.
> i find it difficult to control the path when using cubic. is the
> interpolation done with an x^2-function? what about trying with x^3?
> (doing this with my self-written macros for povray, i got much better
> results with nearly no "swing-over" (hope you know what i mean?)

This is still an area that needs some work.  I use a pretty natural
cubic spline (x^3), with the parameterization based on time.  If you see
a lot of overshoot, it may be that you need to add a couple of keys to
smooth things out.

I'm looking into a way to specify tangents along the splines - it gets
messy though.


> 
> 2.
> a "random-interpolation"

You just want a bunch of random values tossed in?

> 3.
> possibility to type in a mathematical function (this could be done in
> the timeline-window).
> f.e.: z_translate = sin (2*pi*current_frame)

That would be kind of fun.  I'd like quite a bit more functionality on
how f-curves are defined for interpolation.  Takes time.

> 
> 4.
> at the timeline (i know you are still working on) there could be the
> possibility to set two (or more) paths (timelines)for an objects
> transformation which can be linked with "+" or "*".

Again, needs to be more flexibility on the types of curves.  Perhaps
exploit the plugin system to allow people to write plugins that control
animation values.

Xander

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> >
> > 4.
> > at the timeline (i know you are still working on) there could be the
> > possibility to set two (or more) paths (timelines)for an objects
> > transformation which can be linked with "+" or "*".
>
> Again, needs to be more flexibility on the types of curves.  Perhaps
> exploit the plugin system to allow people to write plugins that control
> animation values.

that would get messy, especially as all programmer like to change things.

Rick

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i made up my mind: i find the animation-plugin needs to be more povray
like.
that's not easy to describe, for povray only gives you a clock parameter
which goes from 0 (start of animation) to 1 (end of animation). the
pov-user must create mathematical functions which are controled by this
clock parameter. the easiest way to do this is that you create a
function, which is controled by another function, which is controled by
another function, ..., which is controled by the clock parameter.
So here is my vision for the animation-plugin:
the animation is no longer frames-sensitive; the slider always goes from
0 to 1.
If you set some keys (maybe to control the translation of an object) the
step,linear or cubic-function is by default controled by the clock
parameter.
switching to the timeline-window, there should be the possibility to
create a new function which is controled by the clock parameter while
itself controls the "mother-function". by default, this new function is
a linear y=x function; this means: no change.
in the timeline-window this means, that there is a "+"-sign at the
"scale", "rotate", "translate", whatever..-branch (of the objects tree)
and the user can add more and more branches, going deeper and deeper...
when creating more than one child-funtion it would be nice to set the
procedure "+", "-", "*" and "/" (like in csg-groups where you can set
"union", "difference",...).

And again: the "cyclic animation"-checkbox like pov's "+kc" (nerv, nerv
:]

good wishes,
alex

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there is no reason that in the future support for clock value cannot be
combined with the current timer and key frame setup eg a 100 frame
animation, most of the movements are set using keys, and every frame a
background counter in incremented +.01, and that could be tied to any
formula related animation functions in the scene.

but thats about as far as i think it should go, effectivly forcing the anim
plug to spit out a single pov file for your entire animation, is just daft,
especially as Moray is aiming to support other renderers - like the new brmt
support.

keep formula support for things its good for, and keys and timers for the
other.

eg, if eventually xander adds sound support to the anim plug, dont you thing
it will be far simpler to synch the movement and audio using a ticks system,
in stead of a 0 to 1 counter, ala pov.

if you want to control you whole animation with the clock value, why the
hell do you need it to be supported in moray? surly it would be just as
simple to do it in regular pov script, and would make the animation plug
about a usefull to the pov script junkie as a pop up colour picker, or one
click sphere inserter. and make life harder for all those who use a modeller
simply because they dont want to have to think in pov.

> And again: the "cyclic animation"-checkbox like pov's "+kc" (nerv, nerv

just make the start and end frames the same, and then bin the final frame,
thats all a cyclic check box would do anyhow!

Rick

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hi rick,
i think, you missunderstood me:
i don't want to type in mathematical functions in moray. if you want to
do this, you really better do it in pov.
i don't want xanders plugin to write out one pov-file with all
animation-infos.
what i want is: going away from quantizing the animation-time
check this problem to understand what i mean:
you are doing an animation of a creature who is walking three steps
forward.
beginning with a 100-frame-animation you set the keys at frame nr. 0,
33, 67 and 100.
you see: the positions of the second and the third frame are a little
bit wrong (the exact positions are 33.333333.. and 66.666666..). with a
100-frame-animation, these errors are small and do not matter much. But
if you scale your animation-time later, these errrors are scaled, too.
and they do matter...

alex

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> you are doing an animation of a creature who is walking three steps
> forward.
> beginning with a 100-frame-animation you set the keys at frame nr. 0,
> 33, 67 and 100.
> you see: the positions of the second and the third frame are a little
> bit wrong (the exact positions are 33.333333.. and 66.666666..). with a
> 100-frame-animation, these errors are small and do not matter much. But
> if you scale your animation-time later, these errrors are scaled, too.
> and they do matter...

make a 99 frame anim with keys a 0, 33, 66 and 99 then ???
 tho  i do agree with you, a math based facility for functions withing the
anim pug would be very welcome

Rick

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Rick [Kitty5] wrote:

> make a 99 frame anim with keys a 0, 33, 66 and 99 then ???

hihi! "i saw this one coming!" really! ;]
alex

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Animation times are stored internally as 1/4800 of a second.  If you are
making animations long enough for scaling of normal frame rates to make
a difference, you really ought to consider chopping up into smaller
pieces.

No times are ever stored as frames - frames are always stored as time.

The choice of 1/4800 is actually taken from Max, and is a sensible one. 
Almost all of the normal FPS values divide out evenly, resulting in not
precision loss as you change.

If you scale time by something other than just changing FPS, you will
have some loss of precision.  But with more than four digits of
precision per second, it will be pretty small (for a normal length
animation).

Xander

Alex Wolff wrote:
> 
> hi rick,
> i think, you missunderstood me:
> i don't want to type in mathematical functions in moray. if you want to
> do this, you really better do it in pov.
> i don't want xanders plugin to write out one pov-file with all
> animation-infos.
> what i want is: going away from quantizing the animation-time
> check this problem to understand what i mean:
> you are doing an animation of a creature who is walking three steps
> forward.
> beginning with a 100-frame-animation you set the keys at frame nr. 0,
> 33, 67 and 100.
> you see: the positions of the second and the third frame are a little
> bit wrong (the exact positions are 33.333333.. and 66.666666..). with a
> 100-frame-animation, these errors are small and do not matter much. But
> if you scale your animation-time later, these errrors are scaled, too.
> and they do matter...
> 
> alex

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