Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Alex Magidow <axi### [at] mninternet> wrote:
> : Its not just that- if, for example, someone did write an export to another
> : renderer, wouldn't it be better to have a general scripting language instead of
> : a POV-Ray based one?
> 
>   How do you use povray features not implemented in moray (for example some
> objects, colefax's include files, etc)?

  The one question I have not heard addressed yet is if you expect Moray to
display the results of the written Pov script. This would of course require
Moray to have a Pov language parser added to it and Lutz has already mentioned
he does not want to spend the time to add one. You might as well edit the pov
file directly if you can't visualize it in Moray.

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
:   The one question I have not heard addressed yet is if you expect Moray to
: display the results of the written Pov script.

  My original suggestion was that you could tell moray how to create the
wireframe for the object in script comments or something.
  Moray could also understand simple #declares of floats and #whiles.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
> :   The one question I have not heard addressed yet is if you expect Moray to
> : display the results of the written Pov script.
> 
>   My original suggestion was that you could tell moray how to create the
> wireframe for the object in script comments or something.
>   Moray could also understand simple #declares of floats and #whiles.
 
...which equates to turning Moray into a language parser instead of a simple wire
frame modelling program. I not arguing it's potential I am just pointing out the
reality of what you propose. It would make everyone happy who wishes that Moray
could read pov files directly and between you me and Lutz we certainly know how
many requests there have been for that.

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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Ken wrote:

>   The one question I have not heard addressed yet is if you expect Moray to
> display the results of the written Pov script. This would of course require
> Moray to have a Pov language parser added to it and Lutz has already mentioned
> he does not want to spend the time to add one. You might as well edit the pov
> file directly if you can't visualize it in Moray.

I did address that question earlier - sort of.   The way I see this working, is that
when you chose the Script plugin object from the create menu, a simple wireframe would
be placed in your scene to represent the Script object.  That wireframe doesn't
necessarily need to look like the results of your script.  It would simply act as a
visual cue so you can access the script later for future editing.  Perhaps the plugin
would allow you to choose your wireframe representation - cube, sphere, cylinder, UDO,
etc.

For example, if you wanted to place a Julia fractal in a Moray scene, you would create
a Script object, add the necessary code (including all transformations, bounding
boxes,
textures, etc), choose where in the output renderer code to insert the script, &
transform the wireframe to taste.  Please note that this wireframe would only act as a
visual cue & would not in any way play a part in the actual location, rotation or size
of any object created within the script.

With this kind of ability, you could access any object within Include files, input
values beyond what Moray currently allows (values outside of 0.0 - 1.0), and most
importantly - access features within patched versions of POV.

I like modelling & staging my scenes with Moray.  The big thing that I don't like
about
Moray is that if I want to add anything that Moray doesn't currently handle, I need to
edit the output POV scene file each & everytime that I make a change to the Moray
model.  Being able to add these scripts directly into Moray would greatly reduce the
time & effort required to re-add all of the extra scripting each time I tweek a light
or a texture.

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Or some godly individual could use their programming prowess to work with parpov and
create a pov2mdl library that actually works for version 3.0(and higher, if you
forget about media/halo/atmosphere stuff)

Ken wrote:

> Nieminen Mika wrote:
> >
> > Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
> > :   The one question I have not heard addressed yet is if you expect Moray to
> > : display the results of the written Pov script.
> >
> >   My original suggestion was that you could tell moray how to create the
> > wireframe for the object in script comments or something.
> >   Moray could also understand simple #declares of floats and #whiles.
>
> ...which equates to turning Moray into a language parser instead of a simple wire
> frame modelling program. I not arguing it's potential I am just pointing out the
> reality of what you propose. It would make everyone happy who wishes that Moray
> could read pov files directly and between you me and Lutz we certainly know how
> many requests there have been for that.
>
> --
> Ken Tyler
>
> mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
> http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm



--
You Know You've Been Raytracing Too Long When:
 You purchase Toy Story for inspiration- Then do a better version for fun.

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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
: ...which equates to turning Moray into a language parser instead of a simple wire
: frame modelling program. I not arguing it's potential I am just pointing out the
: reality of what you propose. It would make everyone happy who wishes that Moray
: could read pov files directly and between you me and Lutz we certainly know how
: many requests there have been for that.

  I didn't suggest adding a pov-file reader to moray. I just suggested
supporting a couple of commands like #declare ind=5; and #while(i<10).
The rest could be simple object creation commands that you put into comments.
Actually those float identifiers and while-loops could also be in comments.
  Something like this:

#declare ind=0;       //M: i=0;
#while(ind<100);      //M: while(i<100) {
  julia_fractal       //M: cylinder { <0,-2,0>,<0,2,0>,1;
  { (some julia parameters)
    ...
    translate x*ind   //M: translate <i,0,0>; }
  }
  #declare ind=ind+2; //M: i=i+2; }
#end

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Hi Tony Vigil, you recently wrote in moray.win:

> For example, if you wanted to place a Julia fractal in a Moray scene, you would
create
> a Script object, add the necessary code (including all transformations, bounding
boxes,
> textures, etc), choose where in the output renderer code to insert the script, &
> transform the wireframe to taste.  Please note that this wireframe would only act as
a
> visual cue & would not in any way play a part in the actual location, rotation or
size
> of any object created within the script.

But this is exactly what the User-defined Object is designed for! You
tell Moray in an UDO file what the object looks like and you write the
POV code in the corresponding INC file. Do you want an integrated
editor to write the code?

Also remember that you can tweak textures in the scenes INC file and
*not* have Moray export that texture  (and thus overwrite your
changes) by changing the $MRY$ marker with the name of the texture to
$MRX$.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Alex Magidow <axi### [at] mninternet> wrote:
> : Its not just that- if, for example, someone did write an export to another
> : renderer, wouldn't it be better to have a general scripting language instead of
> : a POV-Ray based one?
> 
>   How do you use povray features not implemented in moray (for example some
> objects, colefax's include files, etc)?

Your questions lead me to believe that you haven't explored all of what
Moray already offers for POV-Ray.  Here are some thoughts...

You can put definitions/include files into MorayPOV.inc (by default in
the main Moray directory).  This doesn't give you any sort of visual
representation of the object/texture/whatever, but makes it possible
(with every version of Moray back to the DOS days) to add unique things
to all of your scene files.

For things specific to an individual scene, you pull down the menu
Scene|Settings,  select the "includes" tab, and enter the .inc files you
plan to use.  Since these .inc files can contain anything you want, you
can use them set the variables for whatever other .include files you
might want to use.

If you want a more general capability, write a really small scene
interface that adds information to the POV-Ray .ini file.  In the
PrintEvent(...) part of the interface, you respond to the event
MRY_NTC_END_POVINI by writing text to the file that is being built.

If you want even more functionality, start writing object interfaces for
the things you really care about.  This is, of course, why Moray has a
plugin interface.

Xander

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Lutz Kretzschmar wrote:

> But this is exactly what the User-defined Object is designed for! You
> tell Moray in an UDO file what the object looks like and you write the
> POV code in the corresponding INC file.

DOHHHHH!  Good Point!

Now for a stupid POV-specific question - can INC files access other INC files, such as
macros
with parameters?

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Tony Vigil wrote:
> 
> Lutz Kretzschmar wrote:
> 
> > But this is exactly what the User-defined Object is designed for! You
> > tell Moray in an UDO file what the object looks like and you write the
> > POV code in the corresponding INC file.
> 
> DOHHHHH!  Good Point!
> 
> Now for a stupid POV-specific question - can INC files access other INC files, such
as macros
> with parameters?

That's what inc files are for...

-- 
Ken Tyler
  
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/links.htm

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