On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:10:29 -0400, Saul Luizaga wrote:

> Well, I never thought it was that strong, I apologize again. Although it
> wasn't because I was semi-informed and I could give some detail, was
> because of the pessimistic question/attitude like I didn't make sure
> this was legit before posting it here, but I think , as Warp and others
> posted here you need diplomacy and I was a bit emo about it, which
> clouded my rationality, is just that I feel emotionally attached to the
> WCG, you know what I mean?

Yep, and perfectly understandable.  It's important, as you noted, to use 
some diplomacy, and in a case like this, separate the personal feelings 
from the underlying question.

But I'm glad I could make you laugh - it might be funny to send some of 
those questions to the Internet Oracle and see what creative answers come 
back.  :-)

Jim

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Saul Luizaga schrieb:

> "World Community Grid is designed as a resource for research done with a 
> philanthropic or humanitarian purpose and will only be available to 
> projects conducted for public and not-for-profit purposes. It will serve 
> as a useful tool for the completion of a certain stage of research, 
> hastening the progress of projects into further phases of development. 
> Results must be made available to the global research community by the 
> sponsoring research organization and remain in the public domain.

Now *that* is what I call a clear and plain statement. Thanks, I did not 
manage to spot that when I skimmed over the pages recently, and back 
then didn't feel like it would be worth spending the time.

As I have recently developed a habit of keeping my computer on and 
connected to the internet virtually all the time, and not running 
renders on my QuadCore /all/ of the time, it might well be worth giving 
the cores something to do while I'm just hacking up code, reading 
newsgroups, or the like. But it's not like I've been in desperate search 
for a way to keep my computer busy or contribute more to humanity: It 
was just a spontaneous research inspired by your earlier posting, 
somewhere between hacking in a shell script and waiting for it to spew 
out results.

With that information you now provided, obviously my initial assessment 
is proven wrong, so I'll definitely have a more in-depth look at it.


You know, I'm rather sceptic when people are all the rage about 
something they're convinced of. I've had my fair share of that myself to 
  know how one can be grossly mistaken with it.

If you insist on calling that paranoia, then fine, have your way. But 
note that answering questions better promotes the project than calling 
someone paranoid just because they doubtfully raise those questions.

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Saul Luizaga schrieb:

> When people post things here I go to the links and dig everything I want 
> to know I don't question the poster with questions I can answer myself 
> making a few clicks with the mouse. And most people do this, why I 
> deserve less?

Maybe because the thing is less important to others than to you?

Going back to my original posting, I realize that it was not at all 
clear (rather to the contrary as I must confess), but the questions I 
asked in that post were meant to be purely rhethorical. My interest in 
the project wasn't anywhere close to actually expect an answer.

Had you not reacted, I wouldn't have bothered any further about the project.

Maybe this explains a bit. (Realizing this, it also helps understanding 
your reaction.)

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On 11/11/09 17:10, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I apologize if anyone felt punched in the face, that was never my
> intention, anyway I was showing the way to the best source of info about
> it.

	Well, see, here's the point. It's not so much that people will get 
upset and be mad about it. They'll just see your response and lose all 
interest.

	One thing I learned about the Internet and forums/newsgroups: People 
love to argue - not to be nasty. It's just an intellectual exercise. And 
your earlier replies were really good fodder for having some 
intellectual discussion, and the actual interest in what you posted is 
quickly gone.


-- 
Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.

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On 11/11/09 17:28, clipka wrote:
> You know, I'm rather sceptic when people are all the rage about
> something they're convinced of. I've had my fair share of that myself to
> know how one can be grossly mistaken with it.

	This is important. Sadly, in this world, presentation is important. 
Although I also detest people who try to make something so "presentable" 
that it's actually dishonest.

	I'm pretty poor at convincing others to try something that I really 
enjoy. I've learned to simply write a post with a short description and 
a link (if it's a Web site), and leave out most appeals to emotion (e.g. 
"save lives/humanity", etc). Well, at least most _strong_ appeals.<G>

-- 
Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.

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clipka wrote:
  > As I have recently developed a habit of keeping my computer on and
> connected to the internet virtually all the time, and not running 
> renders on my QuadCore /all/ of the time, it might well be worth giving 
> the cores something to do while I'm just hacking up code, reading 
> newsgroups, or the like. But it's not like I've been in desperate search 
> for a way to keep my computer busy or contribute more to humanity: It 
> was just a spontaneous research inspired by your earlier posting, 
> somewhere between hacking in a shell script and waiting for it to spew 
> out results.

If you decide to participate and since you have 4 cores, you don't need 
even pause it, the default profile takes only 60% CPU time (you can 
change that editing the profile or creating another) from each core and 
each of the four WUs(Work Units) run on third plane (lowest CPU 
priority), so anything you do, even rendering, is ran first and foremost.

> With that information you now provided, obviously my initial assessment 
> is proven wrong, so I'll definitely have a more in-depth look at it.

Glad to read that and you'll not regret the site is as legit as it can 
get, has plenty of info a nice Forum community, statistics, the WCG 
client gives total control and offer lots of details or just a simple view.

> You know, I'm rather skeptic when people are all the rage about 
> something they're convinced of. I've had my fair share of that myself to 
>  know how one can be grossly mistaken with it.

Yeah, I know what you mean, I have been there many times, that's why now 
I make sure what I get into isn't a hoax. The Internet is a good place 
to be scammed.

> If you insist on calling that paranoia, then fine, have your way. But 
> note that answering questions better promotes the project than calling 
> someone paranoid just because they doubtfully raise those questions.

Your questions and doubts are fine, I had them myself, what made them 
look paranoid was asking them here without checking the website first, 
like you were scared of even go there, hence my confusion, I apologize 
for it.

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Neeum Zawan wrote:
>     Well, see, here's the point. It's not so much that people will get 
> upset and be mad about it. They'll just see your response and lose all 
> interest.
> 
>     One thing I learned about the Internet and forums/newsgroups: People 
> love to argue - not to be nasty.

I see... good to know, thanks.

> It's just an intellectual exercise. And 
> your earlier replies were really good fodder for having some 
> intellectual discussion, and the actual interest in what you posted is 
> quickly gone.

Yeah, so sorry I spoiled the fun.

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clipka wrote:
> Maybe because the thing is less important to others than to you?
> 
> Going back to my original posting, I realize that it was not at all 
> clear (rather to the contrary as I must confess), but the questions I 
> asked in that post were meant to be purely rhetorical. My interest in 
> the project wasn't anywhere close to actually expect an answer.
> 
> Had you not reacted, I wouldn't have bothered any further about the 
> project.
> 
> Maybe this explains a bit. (Realizing this, it also helps understanding 
> your reaction.)

In deed, I guess something good came out of this messy thread if I 
interested you in The WCG :-) and maybe others.

Forgot to say is really gratifying help on the research, you get the 
feeling once you send off you first WU :-)

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Saul Luizaga schrieb:

> In deed, I guess something good came out of this messy thread if I 
> interested you in The WCG :-) and maybe others.

You may like to hear that I have in fact the WCG client running right 
now :-)

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clipka wrote:
> You may like to hear that I have in fact the WCG client running right 
> now :-)

Welcome then :-) In deed I'm glad you're participating, the more we're 
the faster research will go :-)

Please spread the word; the WCG Forum have a thread with suggestion on 
how to help the WCG besides running the client, the most important one 
is this: spread the word to everyone you know or place you visit on The Net.

You don't need to have your PC 24/7 on or increase the utilization 
percentage, normal use is enough, but is up to you.

To help you measure the reach of your help let me tell you a short 
story: A few weeks ago I read in a thread of HCC (Help Conquer Cancer) 
sub-forum that a guy was telling the story of how he met his WCG 
e-friend but he had an aggressive type of Cancer and recently became 
even more aggressive since he was entering the "Event Horizon", he had 
no more than a few weeks left, so this guy, finally got to met him 
personally, after speaking on the phone and webcam, they had a wonderful 
afternoon and at the end of the meeting his friend told him the bad 
news, he was shocked by the news and he spend almost the entire next day 
thinking on the guy and of course moved to tears almost immediately 
after he heard the news but he waited to be in his home to cry. So he 
was asking to dedicate a little more CPU time to this project. The sick 
friend had already 20 high-end PCs on his home each running a WCG Client.

You're helping people like this.

I accept the fact of death, but IMO nobody deserves to go in that 
horrible way or because of AIDS, Alzheimer, Parkinson, etc. Or suffer 
his/her entire life from paralysis, muscular dystrophy or other genetic 
or protein-related diseases. Is just too horrible to see people 
suffering that way, imagine the kind of strength you need to live it 
through your entire life, knowing nothing or nobody can help you... I 
want to give at least realistic hope to those people, even if I never 
met them.

Also I really would like to help someday in the designing of prosthesis 
at very low prices, replacing damaged organs with artificial ones, so 
they can have normal and fruitful lives. Maybe finding new protein 
folding will indirectly help out, knowing what proteins can be combined 
with what artificial materials/proteins and implement prosthesis 
devices. I'd like this to happen before my lifetime.

Cheers.

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