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Halbert wrote:
>>> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me.
>>> My step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
>> Man, I'm so sorry for you. Do you still see her?
>>
>
> I do keep in touch. I am still very concerned for her. It was a long
> nightmarish time. At one point she ate about 50 phenobarbital tablits and a
> bottle of wellbutrin with out even thinking about what she was doing. She
> was in a coma for a few days. Actually, she is in prison right now and that
> is not unrelated to her not taking her meds. A very long (but sort of
> interesting) story. But she has seen better during the time she has been
> supervised.
My heart and prayers go out to you both. I hope she understands the
importance of knowing her condition, and keeps a closer watch on it in
the future. How long will she be away, if you don't mind my asking?
Sam
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Shay wrote:
> Considering how unhealthfully most live today, diet and exercise should
> be the *first* area explored when facing a health problem. Relying on
> drugs alone is the bad and dangerous choice.
>
> It's sad and hysterical that many who smoke, eat hydrogenated fats and
> sugar, and sit on their butts all day will consider mine a naive opinion.
>
> -Shay
Hey, I fit that demographic.... only I know the importance of exercise,
and have almost completely failed to do anything about it. I've got a
bike, I should ride it...
Sam
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Bruno Cabasson wrote:
>> Yeah, but when you're depressed you gain no satisfaction from positive
>> actions...
>
> As strange as it could sound, this statement is partially wrong: the
> correct statement would have rather been "Yeah, but when you're
> depressed you FEEL you gain no satisfaction from positive actions". In
> the depressive cases, you FEEL you are better only when you ARE already
> OK again and recovered most of your capabilities (or a significant part
> of them). BUT you get better and better, unaware of the process, until
> you reach the state where you are (can be/freed enough to be) aware of
> it yourself. So, positive actions are always profitable even if the
> subject feels the opposite. This is a matter of perception and
> 'internal' communication.
I should have been more clear in my statement. I did, of course, mean
that I don't *feel* satisfaction, not that I actually fail to gain any,
eventually :)
Sam
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Mike the Elder wrote:
> Hi Sam. Sorry I've taken so long to reply, but I've just finished a move and am
> still mostly living out of boxes that still need to be unpacked. My online time
> has been erratic and I just picked up on the fact that this was a "serious
> issue" thread.
Hi Mike,
> First, I'm very glad to hear that you are doing a bit better than when the
> thread began.
Thanks.
> Over the past few years, I've done a good bit of research into this topic for
> the sake of a long time friend who has had to deal with a similar situation.
> Here's a brief summary of what I've learned.
>
> The broad generalization that "Everyone on anti-depressants would be better off
> if they just stopped taking them and switched to natural remedies", is false
> and dangerously so. This having been said, it is also true that many
> antidepressant drugs, especially SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake
> Inhibitors) are over marketed and over prescribed to levels that make me wonder
> what kind of "medication" the medicators are on. (Just high on profits I guess.)
I agree with your statement. The pharmaceutical companies would like to
think that SSRIs are for everyone, but I think the true number is much
lower than they think. I've experienced plenty of bad reactions to that
class of drugs, and I do believe I've had all I can take.
SSRIs a dead-end for me; I must look elsewhere for chemical treatment.
If they'd approve a drug that could make a person feel comfortable with
themselves while providing conditions for enhanced internal reflection,
the field of psychotherapy would go a long way, I think.
> It may be a long and difficult search, but there ARE some doctors out there who
> still actually care about their patients' well-being and who are willing to
> work to find a total treatment approach where only the minimum necessary amount
> of pharmaceutical intervention, if any, is used. I would recommend trying again
> and again as many times as necessary until you find one.
Well, I could call up Mental Health, to see what options they can give
me. They are a bit prescription-happy over there, though. I know some
people who have 8+ prescriptions, some of which, considering the
chemical makeup of the drug, may actually exacerbate their condition(s).
It's a little sloppy, if you ask me.
> These simple things work:
> (not as a replacement for medication, but as methods of supporting overall
> well-being whatever one's medication status might be)
>
> 1. Ample amounts of CLEAN water. If you think your tap water is the least bit
> suspect, drink distilled or filtered water.
Our tap water has a slight taste of chlorine from time-to-time, but
overall I think it is safe to drink (the well is probably very clean and
not be far away, considering where I live).
> 2. Maintain a REGULAR sleep schedule. (MUCH easier said than done, I know) A
> regular circadian rhythm enhances numerous critical metabolic processes
> enormously.
Well, now there's a problem. I've been getting to bed between 1 and 3 AM
and waking up around noon lately.
> 3. Forget complicated fad diets and just adopt a strict "no junk food" policy.
> (If you think it might be junk food, it IS.) If fatigue is an issue, drastically
> reducing or eliminating red meat in favor of other protein sources can be a big
> help. Replace "manufactured" food-like products with fresh produce to the
> greatest extent practical.
My diet's pretty good. We prepare all our meals around here. Not too
much red meat, lots of chicken, fresh bread based on a pizza dough
recipe. Not very much junk food at all (I've even stopping having these
annoying donut dreams).
> 4. Unless some medical issue make this problematic, do the following about
> twice per day: Spend about ten minutes building up to an accelerated heart rate
> where you are breathing noticeably heavier than normal, but NOT gasping for
> breath. Remain active enough to maintain this heart rate for an additional
> twenty to twenty-five minutes. The best particular form of exercise is the one
> you most enjoy so you will actually DO it.
Ah yes, gotta get on that bike. My lungs are somewhat compromised,
thanks to these cigarettes I use for attitude maintenance :/ If I could
find an inexpensive, pure form of nicotine, that would be great.
> 5. The results of serious studies on meditation are mixed. I'm pretty sure,
> however, that it helps me and I proffer my personal unscientific recommendation
> to give it a go if you're at all so inclined.
Ive never gotten far with meditation. Perhaps this is due to the fact
that I try when I'm laying down for the night, and end up sleeping
instead of getting much accomplished. If I could reach a state of
internal reflection similar to what I get with this certain OTC
substance, I would be well most of the time, I think.
> Given that my own "spiritual orientation" is that of a
> "Thank-God-I'm-an-Atheist" Eclectic Ironicist (basically, we believe that "true
> spirituality" - if there even *IS* such a thing - has much to do with treating
> other people decently and nothing to do with preaching at them), I'm probably
> profoundly unqualified to introduce this subject, BUT... statistically, many
> people who report having done well in their struggle against depression and
> anxiety credit support from a social group that shares their spiritual and/or
> philosophical outlook as being largely responsible for their success.
I know of such a community, and will most likely introduce myself to
them soon.
> Finally, I'm sure that you already know, despite our society's prejudices to the
> contrary, that depression is a medical condition that does not detract from the
> inherent worth of a sentient individual and more than does diabetes or asthma.
> I'll bet, however, that it doesn't hurt to hear someone else say it once in a
> while.
No, it doesn't hurt, and I've long since dug my heels into my resolve to
assert myself as an equally worthwhile human being, despite my currents.
> Please keep in touch.
Will do. Thanks MTE~
Sam
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Stephen wrote:
> 1. Stone soup is maybe a bit better than chicken soup IMO :)
LOL, no doubt!
> Sam, keep the faith and if you can be strong you will come through the
> bad times :)
Thank you Steven!
I've been through more difficult periods than this,
emotionally-speaking. This has been more of a spiritual deadening, and
less of of an emotionally-charged panic, which is what it mostly was in
the past. To me, becoming emotionless and "dead" inside is just as bad
as losing my mind some other way.
Sam
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>
> My heart and prayers go out to you both. I hope she understands the
> importance of knowing her condition, and keeps a closer watch on it in the
> future. How long will she be away, if you don't mind my asking?
>
> Sam
You seem to be in better spirits. I hope that continues.
She should probably be out this fall but technically they could keep her for
about four more years; the trouble she got into was rather serious. I'm sure
she understands about her condition. As you know it's not easy to live
with-- sometimes even for family members. Let me know if you find any herbal
remedies that work for you too.
--
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> 5. The results of serious studies on meditation are mixed. I'm pretty
> sure,
> however, that it helps me and I proffer my personal unscientific
> recommendation
> to give it a go if you're at all so inclined.
> Ive never gotten far with meditation. Perhaps this is due to the fact
> that I try when I'm laying down for the night, and end up sleeping
> instead of getting much accomplished. If I could reach a state of
> internal reflection similar to what I get with this certain OTC
> substance, I would be well most of the time, I think.
>
When you begin, you cannot meditate correctly by yourself. You must be
introduced and guided by someone who is experienced: zen or yoga teacher,
buddhist monk or so. Meditation is a long process of practice. It can take
a whole year before you can make youself relax correctly and make your
mind silent enough to perform 'real' work. However for someone who just
begins, being capable of reducing significantly the noise in the mind is
already a very good success. Who did not practice meditation for long
cannot imagine the power (including therapeutic).
The gate to meditation: breath.
Sam, from time to time, try to relax and concentrate on your breathing:
sounds (internal & external), movements of your chest, contact with the
matress or the chair, feeling of the air passing through, smells, the
shape of your body etc.. Every time you can do that and think of nothing
much else, you experience a parenthesis where depression is not present, a
bubble of positive living, an additional drop of 'antidote' in the
troubled glass.
When you walk and walk towads a mountain, you may feel it does not get any
closer. You walk and walk more and more, it seems to move away. But after
a undetermined period of time the mountain raises quite suddenly: you have
arrived.
The key: do not expect any result. A fortiori, any quick result. Just do
it. Do not interpret. Just notice that some phenomena occured.
Bruno
--
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Halbert wrote:
>> My heart and prayers go out to you both. I hope she understands the
>> importance of knowing her condition, and keeps a closer watch on it in the
>> future. How long will she be away, if you don't mind my asking?
>>
>> Sam
>
> You seem to be in better spirits. I hope that continues.
Thanks; I do as well.
> She should probably be out this fall but technically they could keep her for
> about four more years; the trouble she got into was rather serious. I'm sure
> she understands about her condition. As you know it's not easy to live
> with-- sometimes even for family members. Let me know if you find any herbal
> remedies that work for you too.
Wow, fours years is a long time to be separated. I hope things turn out
well.
I could have spent 3-7 years in prison myself, had events not gone as
they had. As it turned out, the very head of the mental health board has
a son, who at the time, ran into the same kind of trouble I did. She
pushed for a greater awareness of metal health issues, and I ended up
spending only six months in jail. You could say her son (an old friend
of the family's) and myself actually helped spread mental health
awareness in this county.
As for an herbal remedy that works... I know of a couple. These work for
acute symptoms, mainly:
1) Kava-kava (piper methysticum) is good for leveling a mood. You have
to take a lot (10-28 grams powdered root), and it's not that great for
the liver. Preparation for me has involved mixing the bulk powder into a
mug of strong hot chocolate. It adds a distinct minty flavor to the
beverage. Effects are a general relaxation of body and reduced anxiety,
with a curious preservation of cognitive function (you can still think
clearly).
2) Nutmeg works wonders, and has effectively lifted my depression and/or
culled my mania many times. The benefit is seen for up to 1-5 days
following initial dosing. You have to take a lot (2-5 seeds), and this
may not be good for one's liver. Preparation for me involves grating the
seeds with a fine cheese grater and mixing the bulk powder into a glass
of cold milk. It must be consumed quickly, for the taste and texture are
*very* unpleasant. The effects are much like cannabis (which I can't
have and probably don't need), but without the paranoia and psychotic
aspects, at least IME. It takes 2-6 hours for full effects. There is a
'minty' feeling to the whole body, and orifices may become dry (with red
eyes), as nutmeg has a slight anticholinergic effect. There may be some
stimulation and/or relaxation, and brightening of the mood. Whenever I
take it I end up engaging in creative activities and body stretching,
and my previous mood is usually forgotten. There have been reports of
"nutmeg psychosis," although I, having never suffered from such,
recommend exercising caution with this substance. Many people find the
effects of nutmeg very uncomfortable, but when considering the possible
negative outcome of an acute manic event, this seed can be very
valuable. The unpleasant aspects usually prevent nutmeg from being
abused recreationally. I would recommend it first be taken as a low dose
once during a stable phase, to see if there is any adverse reaction to it.
Of course, I would advise that you first research these things before
having your wife try them experimentally. I don't want to be responsible
for worsening a condition with drugs that I tolerate well.
Sam
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This line is from Sam:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is safety in the presence of
council," therefore I must always surround myself with a support group,
be it familial, professional or even collegial.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember what p##sed me off the night I broke up with you...
......I had put too much faith in "professional" you said (amongst other stupid
things).....
Just so you know, my faith in the professional area has me covered and you are
suffering from your past issues. I'm not sorry for you. You can get rides down
into town by calling a friend. You can get meds if you were to see a
professional. You could have all the hand outs you want by just seeing a real
therapist like I do but you won't. It is a choice. If you want to live
miserably then keep going down the hard and rocky path. I've told you many
times to call my Dr. and I even invited you along for sessions. He'd get you
anything you needed to keep a clear head.
This isn't to go p##sing you off okay. I'm just angry that you won't go seek my
Dr. for help or a real therapist! When God gives you a life raft, you should
take it. I am handing you a life raft Sam Cat - hop in the bloody raft! Yes I
still flip'n care for you, yes it is hard to just keep my mouth shut, and yes
I'm always here looking after you. 3 years of dating and being best friends is
a long bloody time(for me anyway). So please I BEG YOU call my doctor....
Thanx
Lace
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On Wed, 07 May 2008 17:46:09 -0700, stbenge wrote:
> Of course, I would advise that you first research these things before
> having your wife try them experimentally. I don't want to be responsible
> for worsening a condition with drugs that I tolerate well.
>
> Sam
Very good advise.
One of the few remedies I found when Rx stuff didn't work, was cloves.
Chewing on them, clove oil in food or, my then favorite, clove
cigarettes. I never did understand why it worked so well, but I knew too
many people who switched to smoking them that the selected data I had
available said they had to work. Some other research seemed to note some
correlation, when I read about cloves online. Can't remember where that
was, though.
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