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Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 12:59:05 -0700, stbenge wrote:
>
>> Halbert wrote:
>>> Given the circumstances, if there is were other way, I would apply for
>>> Medicaid. I assume that your meds would be covered.
>> Well, I am on SSDI and MediCare/Caid, but they won't cover my meds, for
>> whatever reason.
>
> What the hell? I've only had caid turn me down for one, because some
> nurse forgot to call in the PA.
I don't know. I filled and sent a form out to help me with my meds, but
nothing has come back.
>>> My wife (whom I live
>>> apart from) is bipolar (type II) and she is also getting SSI.
>> Yeah, I'm BP-II also, but I'm pretty sure I've dipped into the more
>> serious form from time to time. I've been quite psychotic and delusional
>> in the past. Not good at all.
>
> If you want someone to yell at, I'm going to be home the rest of the day.
> Having been through days with similar situations (lost the bottle of
> short blood plasma time pills, very fun), I know sometimes a voice can
> help and sometimes it doesn't.
Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it.
My brother and I took a nice walk, I took some OTC medicine, and we
talked. I feel somewhat better now :)
> I would offer to help cause havok for who ever is responsible for you not
> getting the pills you need, but the specifics will wait till you are in a
> better mood.
You know, I'm quite fed up with the whole issue of having to take meds
and whatnot. I don't like to miss my doses and go through those terrible
withdrawals. It's been a month since I've taken anything. If I can find
legally available and inexpensive substances which reliably maintain my
mood, I'm going use them instead. There have been too many times when my
prescriptions have expired or some emergency has left me with no money
to pay for my share-of-cost. Then I'm left with these zappy feelings
going throughout my CNS, even to the tip my tongue. Wonderful stuff
these pharm companies have made me dependent on :-/
Sam
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stbenge wrote:
>
> They used to have a countless supply of samples. Unfortunately, they
> stopped handing them out for whatever reason. Not that samples help much
> anyway. This antidepressant takes a month to kick in, and the withdrawal
> symptoms take just as long to subside. I've just stopped feeling the
> "brain zaps", these terrible electric shock sensations all over. Now, I
> guess I'm back to square one :/
>
Ugh.. :( Best of luck to you. I have a friend who had some luck with St.
John's Wort. Maybe worth a try.
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> Bruno Cabasson wrote:
>> Are you better now Sam?
>
> Yeah, a little, thanks to a low dose of some OTC thing I got from the
> pharmacy. I hate to self-medicate like this :/
>
>> Do you know something about the cause of your depression?
>
> Well, I know of many factors leading to its initial precipitation back
> in '97. Knowing the cause, however, has not been particularly useful for
> finding a cure. Some disorders can be treated this way (e.g. PTSD), but
> depression for me has become mostly a chemical issue. Of course, there
> *are* certain circumstances making recovery difficult at this time. Not
> doesn't help...
>
>> Anyway, it's a bad feeling when one sees all sucks and I personnally
>> know people who had hard time like that and most of them could recover
>> sooner or later, with or without the help of pills.
>> Bruno
>
> Yeah, it will take time. In the past I've found that breaking out of
> myself once in a while helps. The lingering effects of depression are a
> lasting negative perception, and it helps to learn to see things
> differently. I should go camping at higher altitudes or something (I'm
> already at 5000 feet here).
>
> Sam
Well, Sam, I do not want to appear as I am not, and I absolutely do not
want to make 2-pence philosophy.
But as a father, I tried to grow my kids with what I am and with what I
have, despite my separation with they mother (so usual today).
As a man, I entered the buddhist Dharma because I find myself close to
this approach and its ways in helping people to meet their 'humanness'.
This goes through the path of searching for myself.
As a sophrologist, I made a commitment towards myself and others, learning
some techniques related to body and soul.
Everybody carries more answers in himself than he is accustomed to think
(educated to?). This foolish world that surrounds us facilitates fear and
negativeness, in some circumstances raises them into a cult, because some
people of poor soul need our power in order to prevent themself from
searching their own. They use guilt and focus on other's failures to hide
theirs.
What is your main feeling: guilt? fear of any kind? negative sight on
yourself? on the world? hopelessness? loneliness? whatever ...
My opinion is that chemical prison is mainly a sign of medicine's failure,
not yours, rejecting things upon the patients. By making the patient
'escape' chemically, they escape from something they do not master. They
do not like not to master things. Pills can help escape from a vicious
circle, or rest for a while from a dificult situation, or open a temporary
window, in order to allow some other kind of action.
In fact, taking pills cannot be much considered as an 'action'. They are
rather likely to keep the situation as it is (or even worse), leading also
to chemical over-dependance, generating more harm than cure. However they
can be necessary for long-term in some cases, provided they are well
chosen and dosed, and only a necessary companion to the main action.
All of us here in the POV community have something in common: the desire
of making nice images, using our creativity the best we can, and learning
from others. This is a very positive attitude, no? AFAIK, you made some
nice images here... Creating images are a very positive action.
So despite all negativity of all kinds, of any reason, it is possible for
anyone to make the effort to see what he is capable of, to see what he
already made positive, rather than choosing the ease of complaining
endlessly on what appears wrong or too a heavy burden. It is not that
easy. But it is not that difficult.
Antidepressants are not the answer, and many people could do without if
they were properly helped and followed-up. The first help I see is to help
to restart the desire of helping themselves. I am not sure that pills and
therapists are a definitive solution. They may help you go in the way, not
more. The only true solution is not only in yourself, but IS yourself.
Whatever you think you are or are not, whatever you have done or not,
whatever the world is or is not.
Bruno
--
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Meaning no disrespect, but I have to disagree. Having spent years living
with someone who had frequent psychotic episodes and turn into a very
strange, scary, paranoid, but then would return to a completely normal
housewiufe and mother of two the next day. I can tell you with assurance,
that the problem isn't due to psychological trauma, guilt or any other life
experience. It may be precipitated by an event. Episodes may be triggered.
But the root of the problem is biochemical
I am told that the need for meds can sometimes lessen and even go away but
seen that when someone tries to ween themselves off the meds, bad things can
happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me. My
step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
But I'm sure Sam is aware of what can happen. And he is not stopping his
meds by choice. Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful, but relying
on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
--
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Le Wed, 07 May 2008 17:03:59 +0200, Halbert <hal### [at] gmail com> a
> Meaning no disrespect, but I have to disagree. Having spent years living
> with someone who had frequent psychotic episodes and turn into a very
> strange, scary, paranoid, but then would return to a completely normal
> housewiufe and mother of two the next day. I can tell you with assurance,
> that the problem isn't due to psychological trauma, guilt or any other
> life
> experience. It may be precipitated by an event. Episodes may be
> triggered.
> But the root of the problem is biochemical
> I am told that the need for meds can sometimes lessen and even go away
> but
> seen that when someone tries to ween themselves off the meds, bad things
> can
> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me.
> My
> step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
> But I'm sure Sam is aware of what can happen. And he is not stopping his
> meds by choice. Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
> meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful, but
> relying
> on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
>
> --
>
>
We do not really disagree, but just do not adress the same cases. And what
you say is also true. It is the same old tradeoff for depression:
biochemical or existential. In both situations, or mixed ones, a chemical
prison is not the solution, and rather an easy escape from health systems.
If the problem is well defined (diagnosed), the chemical treatment can be
acurately targeted and cannot lead to chemical prison. I can also assure
you that many, many and many people diminished dramatically their pills
(included the useless ones they took unappropriately) by recovering more
or less control of their body and mind. A significant proportion of them
could even stop completely the chemical treatment, some others still have
to keep a background chemical treatment.
What is sure is that all health systems of developped countries very often
over-use chemistry, preventing them from searching the true causes and a
matching treatment, and filling the labs' purses, with the collaboration
of the above-mentionned health systems. Anti-depressants are the most
famous examples of these over-prescriptions.
Now, however, we do not know much of Sam's situation, and this knowledge
belong to him alone. We just can say generalities, and this is no place
for speculating on it. He is sure aware of many things we are not.
Bruno
--
http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> stbenge wrote:
>
>>
>> This antidepressant takes a month to kick in, and the
>> withdrawal symptoms take just as long to subside. I've just stopped
>> feeling the "brain zaps", these terrible electric shock sensations all
>> over. Now, I guess I'm back to square one :/
>>
>
> Ugh.. :( Best of luck to you. I have a friend who had some luck with St.
> John's Wort. Maybe worth a try.
I tried SJW back in '00, but I didn't notice a big difference. Maybe
I'll give it a go, again.
Thanks Mike~
Sam
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On Wed, 07 May 2008 20:05:30 +0200, Bruno Cabasson wrote:
> we do not know much of Sam's situation
This is a very important point, and one I think Halbert might've been
trying to make - when you said "Antidepressants are not the answer", it
sounded to me (though on a reread, I see that I read it differently than
you wrote it) that this might be taken as a kind of "diagnosis" or
"recommendation" to Sam.
It is very dangerous business providing medical diagnoses in an online
discussion forum, for the reason you said here - that we don't know the
situation. We're not in a position to say anything other than
generalities, and it needs to be clear that that is the case. The only
ones qualified to make a diagnosis are the professionals who are trained
to do so and who have had ample time to talk with the individual and
understand their situation *fully*.
Some *are* better at it than others, of course. But I would hazard a
guess that the worst in the field would do a better job sitting down and
talking to the individual as compared to those of us sitting here at our
desks playing "armchair quarterback" to the profession. Most of those in
the profession, BTW, would avoid mixing a friendship (even an online one)
with business - I know several people in the field, and (a) they would
never volunteer to treat anyone they knew personally, and (b) they
wouldn't maintain a friendship with their patients, because that can
create a really bad situation down the road.
My $0.02 - and Sam, FWIW, I hope things start looking up for you.
Jim
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Bruno Cabasson wrote:
> Well, Sam, I do not want to appear as I am not, and I absolutely do not
> want to make 2-pence philosophy.
>
> But as a father, I tried to grow my kids with what I am and with what I
> have, despite my separation with they mother (so usual today).
>
> As a man, I entered the buddhist Dharma because I find myself close to
> this approach and its ways in helping people to meet their 'humanness'.
> This goes through the path of searching for myself.
>
> As a sophrologist, I made a commitment towards myself and others,
> learning some techniques related to body and soul.
>
> Everybody carries more answers in himself than he is accustomed to think
> (educated to?). This foolish world that surrounds us facilitates fear
> and negativeness, in some circumstances raises them into a cult, because
> some people of poor soul need our power in order to prevent themself
> from searching their own. They use guilt and focus on other's failures
> to hide theirs.
I respect and admire all beliefs which produce loving people. I think
all beliefs hold a bit of truth.
> What is your main feeling: guilt? fear of any kind? negative sight on
> yourself? on the world? hopelessness? loneliness? whatever ...
Guilt? Once, perhaps. Now, it's this fear of losing my mind and heart.
Sometimes I feel not quite here, like my heart and spirit has been
destroyed. Today I feel quite ok. I populate my head like I should, but
this feeling comes and goes.
> My opinion is that chemical prison is mainly a sign of medicine's
> failure, not yours, rejecting things upon the patients. By making the
> patient 'escape' chemically, they escape from something they do not
> master. They do not like not to master things. Pills can help escape
> from a vicious circle, or rest for a while from a dificult situation, or
> open a temporary window, in order to allow some other kind of action.
>
> In fact, taking pills cannot be much considered as an 'action'. They are
> rather likely to keep the situation as it is (or even worse), leading
> also to chemical over-dependance, generating more harm than cure.
> However they can be necessary for long-term in some cases, provided they
> are well chosen and dosed, and only a necessary companion to the main
> action.
That's one problem with my situation. The "main action" for me would be
to attend groups down at mental health, but I lost my driver's license
and probably won't be allowed to drive ever again. I'm 35 miles from MH...
> All of us here in the POV community have something in common: the desire
> of making nice images, using our creativity the best we can, and
> learning from others. This is a very positive attitude, no? AFAIK, you
> made some nice images here... Creating images are a very positive action.
Yeah, but when you're depressed you gain no satisfaction from positive
actions. You could even behave like a saint, but inside there is still
that emptiness :(
> So despite all negativity of all kinds, of any reason, it is possible
> for anyone to make the effort to see what he is capable of, to see what
> he already made positive, rather than choosing the ease of complaining
> endlessly on what appears wrong or too a heavy burden. It is not that
> easy. But it is not that difficult.
You know, that line of thinking seems a lot like what Jesus taught.
> Antidepressants are not the answer, and many people could do without if
> they were properly helped and followed-up. The first help I see is to
> help to restart the desire of helping themselves. I am not sure that
> pills and therapists are a definitive solution. They may help you go in
> the way, not more. The only true solution is not only in yourself, but
> IS yourself. Whatever you think you are or are not, whatever you have
> done or not, whatever the world is or is not.
>
>
> Bruno
It will take some time before I can take these words to the point of
getting a job and sustaining myself in a normal way. You see, my moods
can lead me to do very harmful things to myself, and I'd rather not flip
out land in jail (again). I will take them to heart though, and always
remember to redefine myself, instead of holding to an old definition.
Thanks, Bruno~
Sam
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Halbert wrote:
> Meaning no disrespect, but I have to disagree. Having spent years living
> with someone who had frequent psychotic episodes and turn into a very
> strange, scary, paranoid, but then would return to a completely normal
> housewiufe and mother of two the next day. I can tell you with assurance,
> that the problem isn't due to psychological trauma, guilt or any other life
> experience. It may be precipitated by an event. Episodes may be triggered.
> But the root of the problem is biochemical
> I am told that the need for meds can sometimes lessen and even go away but
> seen that when someone tries to ween themselves off the meds, bad things can
> happen. (No matter what Tom Cruise says.) I've had knives thrown at me. My
> step-daughter's bed room was destroyed.
Man, I'm so sorry for you. Do you still see her?
> But I'm sure Sam is aware of what can happen. And he is not stopping his
> meds by choice.
Right. I know I need help for this, be it chemical, therapeutic,
spiritual. I'll not be letting myself get in a bad way again. I've got
emergency procedures I can initiate if I or somebody around me thinks
I'm heading toward psychosis again. "There is safety in the presence of
council," therefore I must always surround myself with a support group,
be it familial, professional or even collegial.
> Trying to treat such a problem with things like diet and
> meditation, relaxation techniques and the like may be helpful, but relying
> on them alone is a bad choice and even dangerous.
Don't I know it! That's why I'd rather self-medicate in the absence of
prescription drugs. I figure I'll find something that works for the
long-term if I keep searching literature.
Sam
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> My $0.02 - and Sam, FWIW, I hope things start looking up for you.
Jim,
Well, today is definitely better. Not manic, but better. The medicine I
took yesterday actually helped, though it was unclear for a while
whether it would work or not. I feel more "me" than I have for several
days. Maybe I'm on the upswing. Maybe it will level out before I become
manic...
Thanks for your input~
Sam
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