.. in every young geeks life where he resolves to locate the designer of  
the motherboard they've just been installing and string them up from the  
nearest tall object.

Thank you unnamed designer for the entire 5mm clearance between the CPU  
heatsink clamps and Northbrige+heatsink on one side and the other 5mm  
clearance between the clamps and a set of capacitors. Also taking into  
account standard case designs putting the screw hole between the serial  
port block and where the PSU normally sits was just as much fun.

Nah it wasn't too bad I just wonder if they ever have to actually install  
one of their creations.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> .. in every young geeks life where he resolves to locate the designer of
> the motherboard they've just been installing and string them up from the
> nearest tall object.
>
> Thank you unnamed designer for the entire 5mm clearance between the CPU
> heatsink clamps and Northbrige+heatsink on one side and the other 5mm
> clearance between the clamps and a set of capacitors. Also taking into
> account standard case designs putting the screw hole between the serial
> port block and where the PSU normally sits was just as much fun.
>
> Nah it wasn't too bad I just wonder if they ever have to actually install
> one of their creations.
>
> --
> Phil Cook
>
> --
> I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
> http://flipc.blogspot.com

LOL
No. They are completely satisfied with building it. ;-)

Regards
         bluetree

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And lo on Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:37:10 -0000, bluetree <nomail@nomail> did  
spake, saying:

> "Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> .. in every young geeks life where he resolves to locate the designer of
>> the motherboard they've just been installing and string them up from the
>> nearest tall object.
>>
>> Thank you unnamed designer for the entire 5mm clearance between the CPU
>> heatsink clamps and Northbrige+heatsink on one side and the other 5mm
>> clearance between the clamps and a set of capacitors. Also taking into
>> account standard case designs putting the screw hole between the serial
>> port block and where the PSU normally sits was just as much fun.
>>
>> Nah it wasn't too bad I just wonder if they ever have to actually  
>> install
>> one of their creations.
>>
>> --
>> Phil Cook
>>
>> --
>> I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
>> http://flipc.blogspot.com
>
> LOL
> No. They are completely satisfied with building it. ;-)

Yeah, I wouldn't have minded too much but if you think of it as being  
orientated NS then ES was a vast unsullied plain of nothing-ness.


-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> Yeah, I wouldn't have minded too much but if you think of it as being
> orientated NS then ES was a vast unsullied plain of nothing-ness.

^^
I know, why I am not a geek and actually not able to build a computer from piece
parts all on my own. :-D
You should see the wire-clutter, my computer has inside... (would probably be
better, if things would have a different orientation or I would have another
tower.) ;-)
But I don't complain, because I'm soooo happy, it works and I can do quite
enough with that old thing. :-)

Regards
          bluetree

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And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 11:05:27 -0000, bluetree <nomail@nomail> did  
spake, saying:

> "Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>> Yeah, I wouldn't have minded too much but if you think of it as being
>> orientated NS then ES was a vast unsullied plain of nothing-ness.
>
> ^^
> I know, why I am not a geek and actually not able to build a computer  
> from piece parts all on my own. :-D
> You should see the wire-clutter, my computer has inside... (would  
> probably be
> better, if things would have a different orientation or I would have  
> another tower.) ;-)
> But I don't complain, because I'm soooo happy, it works and I can do  
> quite enough with that old thing. :-)

In a older thread I pointed out how installing things in terms of hardware  
has barely changed compared to software. Depending on what you're doing  
you're still expected to pop the case, screw/unscrew things, fiddle with  
wires and jumper settings while ensuring you're not statically charged and  
shorting anything out.

Can you imagine if the only way to install anying in Windows was to locate  
the correct installation file, move some of the files over manually, and  
then set the right commands in the registry while at the same time  
ensuring it doesn't mess with any of your other programmes?

I mean sure things have got better superficially. I opened the case by  
hand rather then by screwdriver, and... um yeah that's about the only  
difference I noted.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

> In a older thread I pointed out how installing things in terms of 
> hardware has barely changed compared to software. Depending on what 
> you're doing you're still expected to pop the case, screw/unscrew 
> things, fiddle with wires and jumper settings while ensuring you're not 
> statically charged and shorting anything out.
> 
> Can you imagine if the only way to install anying in Windows was to 
> locate the correct installation file, move some of the files over 
> manually, and then set the right commands in the registry while at the 
> same time ensuring it doesn't mess with any of your other programmes?
> 
> I mean sure things have got better superficially. I opened the case by 
> hand rather then by screwdriver, and... um yeah that's about the only 
> difference I noted.

Dude. Jumpers.

Seriously. Jumpers.

It used to be the case that getting any new bit of hardware to work 
involved advanced jumper settings, twiddling dip switches and chanting 
over voodoo dolls. Today you can pretty much just plug in a PCI card and 
*expect* it to work immediately - or at least as soon as you put the CD 
in. No IRQ conflicts, no driver mismatches, IT JUST WORKS!!

Anybody who remembers the old skool ways will tell you just how much of 
an improvement that is.

And let's not even get started on all those USB goodies that YOU JUST 
PLUG IN AND THEY GO! It wasn't like that before. Had to turn off the 
whole PC to connect or disconnect anything...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:53:06 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> In a older thread I pointed out how installing things in terms of  
>> hardware has barely changed compared to software. Depending on what  
>> you're doing you're still expected to pop the case, screw/unscrew  
>> things, fiddle with wires and jumper settings while ensuring you're not  
>> statically charged and shorting anything out.
>>  Can you imagine if the only way to install anying in Windows was to  
>> locate the correct installation file, move some of the files over  
>> manually, and then set the right commands in the registry while at the  
>> same time ensuring it doesn't mess with any of your other programmes?
>>  I mean sure things have got better superficially. I opened the case by  
>> hand rather then by screwdriver, and... um yeah that's about the only  
>> difference I noted.
>
> Dude. Jumpers.
>
> Seriously. Jumpers.

Which I had to change to set the FSB speed; not counting the ones on the  
HDs for master/slave which I didn't need to look at. You're right though I  
recall racks of jumpers which had to be set to arcane precsion to get  
things working, but it's still a testament that's the only advance you can  
spot. Unless you want to go off on SCSI, but that's always been dark juju.

> It used to be the case that getting any new bit of hardware to work  
> involved advanced jumper settings, twiddling dip switches and chanting  
> over voodoo dolls. Today you can pretty much just plug in a PCI card and  
> *expect* it to work immediately -

> or at least as soon as you put the CD in.

So the CD counts as part of the hardware then?

> No IRQ conflicts, no driver mismatches, IT JUST WORKS!!

Describe the process for installing a CPU five/ten years ago compared to  
doing so today. Repeat with a video card leaving out bits you're doing in  
software.

> Anybody who remembers the old skool ways will tell you just how much of  
> an improvement that is.

But how much is that down to an improvement in software. Windows 95  
automatically added new hardware and sought out the drivers for it.

> And let's not even get started on all those USB goodies that YOU JUST  
> PLUG IN AND THEY GO! It wasn't like that before. Had to turn off the  
> whole PC to connect or disconnect anything...

Again though why did the older computers need to reboot - the software  
unable to dynamically load/unload drivers or a physical hardware aspect?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

>> Dude. Jumpers.
>>
>> Seriously. Jumpers.
> 
> Which I had to change to set the FSB speed;

Really??

On my motherboard, I just plugged everything in, turned it on, and it 
automatically configured itself and worked. Not one single jumper to set.

> not counting the ones on the 
> HDs for master/slave which I didn't need to look at.

SATA HDs don't have these either.

> You're right though 
> I recall racks of jumpers which had to be set to arcane precsion to get 
> things working, but it's still a testament that's the only advance you 
> can spot.

Can you think of anything else that *requires* improvement then?

>> It used to be the case that getting any new bit of hardware to work 
>> involved advanced jumper settings, twiddling dip switches and chanting 
>> over voodoo dolls. Today you can pretty much just plug in a PCI card 
>> and *expect* it to work immediately -
> 
>> or at least as soon as you put the CD in.
> 
> So the CD counts as part of the hardware then?

Depends on your definition of "works".

If you want to be able to control it, you'll need some software to do 
that. But sure, a couple of things that can be operated without software 
will work straight off...

> Describe the process for installing a CPU five/ten years ago compared to 
> doing so today.

What, you'd like the CPU to teleport itself into the socket instead? :-D

> Repeat with a video card leaving out bits you're doing 
> in software.

Remember when we all had 2 video cards and a pass-through cable to allow 
you to switch between 2D and 3D modes? ;-)

>> Anybody who remembers the old skool ways will tell you just how much 
>> of an improvement that is.
> 
> But how much is that down to an improvement in software. Windows 95 
> automatically added new hardware and sought out the drivers for it.

In the old days, things like IRQ numbers could *only* be adjusted by 
physically moving DIP switches on the circuit board. The point is that 
they CHANGED THE HARDWARE so you could change the IRQ number in 
software. THAT is what has allowed "the software to get better".

>> And let's not even get started on all those USB goodies that YOU JUST 
>> PLUG IN AND THEY GO! It wasn't like that before. Had to turn off the 
>> whole PC to connect or disconnect anything...
> 
> Again though why did the older computers need to reboot - the software 
> unable to dynamically load/unload drivers or a physical hardware aspect?

In the Old Days, if you suddenly plugged or unplugged a device, you 
would likely fry the interface circuitry. Today we use interfaces that 
are expressedly designed to support such actions. That one is purely a 
hardware thing. (Although obviously the software needs to support it too.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:36:29 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> Dude. Jumpers.
>>>
>>> Seriously. Jumpers.
>>  Which I had to change to set the FSB speed;
>
> Really??

<major snip> I'm not saying things haven't gotten better, just a) cmparing  
the pace compared to software and b) would you expect someone who had no  
problem installing Acme Racing Game II to fit a new CPU/Motherboard/Video  
Card/Memory? 'Open up the case and look at all those wires, now just  
remember don't touch any of them else sharks will eat your granny'. You're  
still opening the case being confronted with a PCB and a bunch of wires  
and cables hanging about it's still more a preserve of your geek.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Phil Cook wrote:

> <major snip> I'm not saying things haven't gotten better, just a) 
> cmparing the pace compared to software and b) would you expect someone 
> who had no problem installing Acme Racing Game II to fit a new 
> CPU/Motherboard/Video Card/Memory? 'Open up the case and look at all 
> those wires, now just remember don't touch any of them else sharks will 
> eat your granny'. You're still opening the case being confronted with a 
> PCB and a bunch of wires and cables hanging about it's still more a 
> preserve of your geek.

Well... have you opened the bonnet of your car recently? I notice newer 
cars have a big sheet of plastic under there, but beyond that it's still 
pretty much a case of "if you don't know what a distributor is, you 
probably shouldn't touch this - otherwise you might die". At least 
computers don't physically kill you if you make a mistake. ;-)

I don't really see how the situation can realistically be improved much. 
You could make all the components less fragile by using some sort of 
casing, and make it to things slot together more easily, but that's 
about it.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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