On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:08:05 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>St. wrote:
>>     He's not wrong.
>
>He is. He just doesn't understand the difference between ADSL and 
>"Broadband". But whatever. Feel free to have the last word.

You are wrong.

--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:39:49 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>IMBJR wrote:
>>>Wrong!  You can get BT's ISDN2e or ISDN30e service!  Both are faster than
>>>your modem!  
>> 
>> And slower than ADSL if I recall correctly. That's a no hoper.
>
>Uh, no. An ISDN30e service is going to be somewhat faster than a T1 
>line. It's actually an E1 line. And you're the one telling others that 
>they don't understand how broadband works?

And it is expensive I bet.

>
>In any case, ISDN2e is considered broadband, and it's significantly 
>faster than what you have now, so the fact that it's slower than 
>something you can't get is irrelevant too.

Expensive!

>
>>>You are just too lazy to get them!!!  Oh well, I should just
>> Parrot.

>
>You've also yet to learn the difference between parroting and mocking. ;-)

You've also got to learn to think things through.

--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
news:b8as40d47rtbrt8ih37iq1imnhvt7dckqo@4ax.com...
> Don't kid yourself that this is a community. A community happens in
> "meatspace", face to face, in real buildings with real progress. This
> is merely a exchange of data.

I will take personal offense at this.

This *is* a community.  The individuals here are more intelligent, capable,
considerate, helpful and productive than any other group I have known.  This
community produces incredible artwork, as well as the tools to create it.  I
am proud of the fact that I am allowed a space here in these forums*, and I
don't appreciate your attitude in this respect.

-- 
...Chambers
http://www.geocities.com/bdchambers79

*How about a T-Shirt: "POV-Ray: Ray Traced, and Proud Of It"?

Post a reply to this message

IMBJR wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:42:38 +0100, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>Tom Galvin wrote:
>>
>>
>>>IMBJR <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in
>>>news:l4as40lb39iv61huj2r191n76q3jbfir3u@4ax.com: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any rules I have broken I have corrected myself on.  I'm no longer
>>>>using foul language. 
>>
>>That may be so (for some value of foul) but you are still being rude
>>to anyone who might have a different opinion. So that you have
>>corrected yourself is a blatant lie.
> 
> 
> People are rude me, I respond in kind. Seems we are all in breach of
> that rather vague AUP.
That again is not true, you responded rude to various people that
were not rude to you. May be you though that they were rude, but
more often than not _I_ could not see it. For me most of your
attacks came totally out of the blue.
> 
>>>>The format postings were, after all, permitted.
>>>>Yes, I certainly appear rude to some, but let's face it, when in
>>>>argument with others, one certainly will appear rude.
>>
>>If a large number of people complain about your behaviour then
>>take the hint, try to understand what they find rude and stop
>>doing it. FYI any statement from you along the lines of:
>>'one million lemmings can't be wrong' or statements of similar
>>intent, I will regard as rude, childish, and not to the point.
> 
> 
> Talk about trolling. 
You seem to have a totally different idea about what trolling
is than I do. Previous experience tells me that any discussion
about this is therefore senseless.

> Are you trying to get me into trouble?
On the contrary I was trying to keep you from getting into
trouble, by anticipating the kind of remarks you normally
make. (I can guess some possible replies, but I leave it to
you this time to restrain yourself).

> 
>>>
>>>IMHO, I think most people who frequent this server prefer having a 
>>>discussion rather than an argument.  Perhaps you misunderstood the intent 
>>>of my earlier quote of the the Acceptable Use Policy.  That specific 
>>>paragraph not only referenced profanity, but conduct as well.  Rude 
>>>behavior and harrasment are not condoned.  I include the relevant paragraph 
>>>below.
>>>
>>>    Users of this news server may not post messages that could
>>>    reasonably be expected, by today's standards, to cause another
>>>    reasonable person to not want to use or visit this server due
>>>    to a feeling of harassment. Personal attacks, exhibiting
>>>    insulting or abusive behavior, are not an acceptable activity
>>>    on this news server. Likewise, the use of profanity is also
>>>    considered unacceptable.
>>
>>I am seriously considering leaving if I see any more of this kind of
>>post from IMBJR. Not only does it takes too much time to go through
>>these senseless discussions, but I feel often so offended that it
>>takes also a considerable amount of time to calm down.
>>(IMBJR: any comment hinting at my sensitivity I will consider rude,
>>childish, and not to the point.)
> 
> 
> Talk about trolling. Are you trying to get me into trouble?
On the contrary I was trying to keep you from getting into
trouble, by anticipating the kind of remarks you normally
make. (I can guess some possible replies, but I leave it to
you this time to restrain yourself)
> 
>>Is there a place where I can register a formal complaint?
> 
> 
> Please, put me in your killfile and be done with it.
No that won't work, I will still see the replies of others.
Actually, until today I even did not know I could move
someone into a killfile and I only searched because
someone in a tread polluted with your rude remarks
mentioned the term. In all those 20+ years I have been
on the internet (or comparable) I never ever met someone
that made such a thing necessary. (I can guess some
possible replies, but I leave it to you this time to
restrain yourself)

No for another reason, I still hope you tone down and behave
like a decent fellow human being. I have seen some of your
work (though not all the latest, because for reasons entirely
my own, I will not install new software on the machine I
use to read the news with) and I think your work is of high
quality and an inspiration for others. I just hope that
you do something about that temper of yours. If I may be so
bold to do a suggestion: whenever you feel personally
attacked by an e-mail. Leave it for a day, reread it when
you are completely rested and if you still feel angry,
express that you felt attacked and do not immediately
retaliate. I guarantee you that in 90+% of all cases
it was never the intention to launch a personal attack.
Though in your case your previous rude behaviour will
make the score lower.
(FYI this mail isn't a personal attack either, nor were
any of my other mails. If you think otherwise, reread).

	Andrel

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:15 -0800, "Chambers"
<bdc### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
>news:b8as40d47rtbrt8ih37iq1imnhvt7dckqo@4ax.com...
>> Don't kid yourself that this is a community. A community happens in
>> "meatspace", face to face, in real buildings with real progress. This
>> is merely a exchange of data.
>
>I will take personal offense at this.
>
>This *is* a community.  The individuals here are more intelligent, capable,
>considerate, helpful and productive than any other group I have known.  This
>community produces incredible artwork, as well as the tools to create it.  I
>am proud of the fact that I am allowed a space here in these forums*, and I
>don't appreciate your attitude in this respect.

Believe you me, comparing this news server and it contents to a
community is inaccurate to say the least. 

People here post images, binaries, bits of POV code. They critique
images and points of view. Share ideas on POV-Ray and its satellites
of software. Some even discuss off-topic stuff like on the rest of
usenet.

In a real "meatspace" community the depth of interaction makes the
above list of activitys look extremely small. The true personal touch
is where community is really at. This is merely a digital facimile of
a community, and as such does not go to the nth degree. 

Try comparing this place and its sister groups to, say, a village or a
city - both communities of differing scale. That will ensure that one
will see that this is a merely drop in the ocean of human interaction.

--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:00:24 +0100, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>
>
>IMBJR wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:42:38 +0100, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>>Tom Galvin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>IMBJR <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in
>>>>news:l4as40lb39iv61huj2r191n76q3jbfir3u@4ax.com: 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Any rules I have broken I have corrected myself on.  I'm no longer
>>>>>using foul language. 
>>>
>>>That may be so (for some value of foul) but you are still being rude
>>>to anyone who might have a different opinion. So that you have
>>>corrected yourself is a blatant lie.
>> 
>> 
>> People are rude me, I respond in kind. Seems we are all in breach of
>> that rather vague AUP.
>That again is not true, you responded rude to various people that
>were not rude to you. May be you though that they were rude, but
>more often than not _I_ could not see it. For me most of your
>attacks came totally out of the blue.

You obviously are missing the full context. I suggest you re-read the
thread and you will see this did not appear out-of-the-blue.

>> 
>>>>>The format postings were, after all, permitted.
>>>>>Yes, I certainly appear rude to some, but let's face it, when in
>>>>>argument with others, one certainly will appear rude.
>>>
>>>If a large number of people complain about your behaviour then
>>>take the hint, try to understand what they find rude and stop
>>>doing it. FYI any statement from you along the lines of:
>>>'one million lemmings can't be wrong' or statements of similar
>>>intent, I will regard as rude, childish, and not to the point.
>> 
>> 
>> Talk about trolling. 
>You seem to have a totally different idea about what trolling
>is than I do. Previous experience tells me that any discussion
>about this is therefore senseless.

That's why people debate, because of differences!

>
>> Are you trying to get me into trouble?
>On the contrary I was trying to keep you from getting into
>trouble, by anticipating the kind of remarks you normally
>make. (I can guess some possible replies, but I leave it to
>you this time to restrain yourself).

Strange how you did not get the replies you wanted though, isn't it?

>
>> 
>>>>
>>>>IMHO, I think most people who frequent this server prefer having a 
>>>>discussion rather than an argument.  Perhaps you misunderstood the intent 
>>>>of my earlier quote of the the Acceptable Use Policy.  That specific 
>>>>paragraph not only referenced profanity, but conduct as well.  Rude 
>>>>behavior and harrasment are not condoned.  I include the relevant paragraph 
>>>>below.
>>>>
>>>>    Users of this news server may not post messages that could
>>>>    reasonably be expected, by today's standards, to cause another
>>>>    reasonable person to not want to use or visit this server due
>>>>    to a feeling of harassment. Personal attacks, exhibiting
>>>>    insulting or abusive behavior, are not an acceptable activity
>>>>    on this news server. Likewise, the use of profanity is also
>>>>    considered unacceptable.
>>>
>>>I am seriously considering leaving if I see any more of this kind of
>>>post from IMBJR. Not only does it takes too much time to go through
>>>these senseless discussions, but I feel often so offended that it
>>>takes also a considerable amount of time to calm down.
>>>(IMBJR: any comment hinting at my sensitivity I will consider rude,
>>>childish, and not to the point.)
>> 
>> 
>> Talk about trolling. Are you trying to get me into trouble?
>On the contrary I was trying to keep you from getting into
>trouble, by anticipating the kind of remarks you normally
>make. (I can guess some possible replies, but I leave it to
>you this time to restrain yourself)

Strange how you did not get the replies you wanted though, isn't it?

>> 
>>>Is there a place where I can register a formal complaint?
>> 
>> 
>> Please, put me in your killfile and be done with it.

>No that won't work, I will still see the replies of others.
>Actually, until today I even did not know I could move
>someone into a killfile and I only searched because
>someone in a tread polluted with your rude remarks
>mentioned the term. In all those 20+ years I have been
>on the internet (or comparable) I never ever met someone
>that made such a thing necessary. (I can guess some
>possible replies, but I leave it to you this time to
>restrain yourself)

For 20 years and you never knew about a killfile? Interesting.

PS. Again, sorry to disappoint. Learn to have your expectations
disappointed when debating with me.

>
>No for another reason, I still hope you tone down and behave
>like a decent fellow human being. I have seen some of your
>work (though not all the latest, because for reasons entirely
>my own, I will not install new software on the machine I
>use to read the news with) and I think your work is of high
>quality and an inspiration for others. I just hope that
>you do something about that temper of yours. If I may be so
>bold to do a suggestion: whenever you feel personally
>attacked by an e-mail. Leave it for a day, reread it when
>you are completely rested and if you still feel angry,
>express that you felt attacked and do not immediately
>retaliate. I guarantee you that in 90+% of all cases
>it was never the intention to launch a personal attack.

I doubt it. Time would not have corrected what had happened. The
offense would still have been present - no doubt compounded by
people's jocular remarks on top of it as they remarked on the offense.

>Though in your case your previous rude behaviour will
>make the score lower.
>(FYI this mail isn't a personal attack either, nor were
>any of my other mails. If you think otherwise, reread).

Again, for me a personal attack does not involve words.

>
>	Andrel
>
>

--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:59:40 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>IMBJR wrote:
>> Costs? The software can be sourced freely. Just because you've been
>> bitten by software does not mean we all have.
>
>And just because I've been bitten by software doesn't mean I'm lazy.

I've got you in love with that word "lazy", no?

But seriously, again I say, just because you've had bad experiences
with software in the past is no sign that it will happen again, either
for you or others. Shying away from the new because of the old is not
going to get you far. Sure we all to a degree do not like progress,
but progress is always present.
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com

Post a reply to this message

>>>
>>>People are rude me, I respond in kind. Seems we are all in breach of
>>>that rather vague AUP.
>>
>>That again is not true, you responded rude to various people that
>>were not rude to you. May be you though that they were rude, but
>>more often than not _I_ could not see it. For me most of your
>>attacks came totally out of the blue.
> 
> 
> You obviously are missing the full context. I suggest you re-read the
> thread and you will see this did not appear out-of-the-blue.
Sorry to disappoint you, the world is a better place than you
think it is. Most of it is still out of the blue for me. You
have been attacking people who made totally innocent remarkt.
Either you or me has a totally distorted view of the world.
> 
>>>
>>>Talk about trolling. 
>>
>>You seem to have a totally different idea about what trolling
>>is than I do. Previous experience tells me that any discussion
>>about this is therefore senseless.
> 
> 
> That's why people debate, because of differences!
Sometimes. But if the problem is in definition of a
certain term, my experience is that any discussion is
pointless untill you agree on the meaning of a term.
Below we have another fine example.
> 
>>>Are you trying to get me into trouble?
>>
>>On the contrary I was trying to keep you from getting into
>>trouble, by anticipating the kind of remarks you normally
>>make. (I can guess some possible replies, but I leave it to
>>you this time to restrain yourself).
> 
> 
> Strange how you did not get the replies you wanted though, isn't it?
No, and I do not understand this remark. It feels as if you
try to imply that I wanted you react in a certain way. That
is precisely what I did not wanted. Believe me, I mean what
I say, without any hidden agendas. Basically I am just a naive
guy who thinks the world is full of nice people and treats everybody
as if they are. You will be surprised at the number of times I
have been disappointed in others (my best estimate would be
3-5 times in my entire live, but I may be just lucky with
my friends, relatives, and coworkers).
> 
> 
>>>>Is there a place where I can register a formal complaint?
>>>
>>>
>>>Please, put me in your killfile and be done with it.
> 
> 
>>No that won't work, I will still see the replies of others.
>>Actually, until today I even did not know I could move
>>someone into a killfile and I only searched because
>>someone in a tread polluted with your rude remarks
>>mentioned the term. In all those 20+ years I have been
>>on the internet (or comparable) I never ever met someone
>>that made such a thing necessary. (I can guess some
>>possible replies, but I leave it to you this time to
>>restrain yourself)
> 
> 
> For 20 years and you never knew about a killfile? Interesting.
Yip. Never needed it before.

> PS. Again, sorry to disappoint. Learn to have your expectations
> disappointed when debating with me.
<sigh> I don't see why. Unless you really mean that whatever
I (or anybody else) say, you will be rude as you see fit.
Otherwise I really do not see why we can not have a
civilized discussion.
> 
>>No for another reason, I still hope you tone down and behave
>>like a decent fellow human being. I have seen some of your
>>work (though not all the latest, because for reasons entirely
>>my own, I will not install new software on the machine I
>>use to read the news with) and I think your work is of high
>>quality and an inspiration for others. I just hope that
>>you do something about that temper of yours. If I may be so
>>bold to do a suggestion: whenever you feel personally
>>attacked by an e-mail. Leave it for a day, reread it when
>>you are completely rested and if you still feel angry,
>>express that you felt attacked and do not immediately
>>retaliate. I guarantee you that in 90+% of all cases
>>it was never the intention to launch a personal attack.
> 
> 
> I doubt it. Time would not have corrected what had happened. The
> offense would still have been present - no doubt compounded by
> people's jocular remarks on top of it as they remarked on the offense.
>
If you stop feeling hurt because somebody offended you,
and take that as an excuse for being rude to anyone else
in the same thread, within two weeks everything will be forgotten.
And that will be one week or less if you apologize to
the people in this group and promise in these NGs to be
nice and friendly. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I
think the changes of you apologizing are slim to say the
least. Yet naive silly boy that I am, I always think
people wil do what they ought to).

> 
>>Though in your case your previous rude behaviour will
>>make the score lower.
>>(FYI this mail isn't a personal attack either, nor were
>>any of my other mails. If you think otherwise, reread).
> 
> 
> Again, for me a personal attack does not involve words.
(Here is the other example of a mismatch in definition.)
Come on, you know what _I_ mean. I knew already what it means
for you and will supply that definition when _you_ use it.
One of the basic rules in a discussion is that you try
to understand what the other peorson is saying (i.e. what
he/she means). Assuming that someone else means the same
thing as you would when you say it is a fundamental mistake.
Sorry, if I offend you by reiterating that, but I think
you made that mistake a lot of times in this discussions
and that it is the main reason for you to think that
everybody is after you.

So, I think I have said what I intended to say. I do not
feel that this discussion is productive. This wil be my
last post, unless you come up with a new and surprising
insight.

I hope to see you again in these NGs and that can only
happen if I do not put you in the killfile. If you are nice
and friendly with me and the others I might even forget
the whole concept of the killfile and return happily to
my normal naive ground state.

	Andrel

Post a reply to this message

"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
news:abuu40pefkqd07a7uk8fqvat1ndcua1vbt@4ax.com...
>
> The scanner they use for the negatives? You *are* referring to
> chemical prints aren't you?
>
Perchance you should learn the terminology before inserting foot in open
mouth.  I'm afraid photography was around in a more advanced state long
before digital was anything but a term for counting on ones fingers.

Post a reply to this message

In article <404e9fb8$1@news.povray.org>, dne### [at] sanrrcom says...
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
> > The only real advantage a 
> > digital camera gives is "instant use" of the image or the ability to 
> > transfer it to your laptop as you take it
> 
> Well, that and the ability to see what you've taken as soon as you take 
> it and to throw away the crappy photos for essentially zero cost. When 
> you take 10 times as many photos as you normally would and reshoot the 
> ones that didn't come out as you expect, you wind up with a lot better 
> pictures.  Of course, if you're an experienced professional, you don't 
> need to do such a thing.
> 
> If you're getting visible artifacts from a good digital camera, you are 
> definitely good enough that you ought to be using film. ;-)
> 
> 
That rather depends on the camera. Every manufacturer uses different 
setting to 'optimize' and the best one isn't always the one with the 
highest price either. I would prefer something that if compressed didn't 
have 50 different options some company could tweak to screw up the final 
result. ;)

-- 
void main () {

    call functional_code()
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

Post a reply to this message