POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : The Reds Are Coming... Server Time: 27 Jun 2017 12:06:51 GMT
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From: Simon J  Cambridge
Subject: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 18 May 2017 12:10:01
Message: <web.591d8e155a6f70491195a2400@news.povray.org>
Hi Folks,

Again, going back to basics, I tried something else as well. I suppose I was
inspired here by a teenage visit to Brezhnev's russia, and all those heroic
posters embalzoned on the walls, in the squares and on the underground. If you
have heroes, pose them dramatically, that's what I say! I was tempted to have
Lenin ordering a taxi somewhere, but decided against it.

I also have a liking for Art-Deco, which is why all the reflective surfaces and
the design of the sky-ships and the helms. Too much 'Flash Gordon' at saturday
morning pictures, perhaps.

Anyway! What do you think?

(Again, no radiosity and only two light sources and I messed with the contrast a
little post render.)

Cheers,

Simon.

http://www.landofthefirst.com/


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 07:18:10
Message: <591e9c32$1@news.povray.org>
On 18-5-2017 14:05, Simon J. Cambridge wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Again, going back to basics, I tried something else as well. I suppose I was
> inspired here by a teenage visit to Brezhnev's russia, and all those heroic
> posters embalzoned on the walls, in the squares and on the underground. If you
> have heroes, pose them dramatically, that's what I say! I was tempted to have
> Lenin ordering a taxi somewhere, but decided against it.
>
> I also have a liking for Art-Deco, which is why all the reflective surfaces and
> the design of the sky-ships and the helms. Too much 'Flash Gordon' at saturday
> morning pictures, perhaps.
>
> Anyway! What do you think?
>
> (Again, no radiosity and only two light sources and I messed with the contrast a
> little post render.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Simon.
>
> http://www.landofthefirst.com/
>

Reading the title, I was at first tempted to frantically look for the 
"What to do if..." booklets.  :-)

I like the scene but a bit less than the previous one. I think this is 
due to the extremely high reflectivity of the body armour and weapons. 
While I can understand the military reason for that (blind your enemies! 
or make yourself 'invisible' like skyscrapers with reflective curtain 
walls) this is a bit counter-productive here, especially the army in the 
background. Maybe do something about the atmosphere which tends to blur 
all colours a bit too much.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 08:39:46
Message: <591eaf52$1@news.povray.org>
On 5/19/2017 8:18 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> I like the scene but a bit less than the previous one. I think this is
> due to the extremely high reflectivity of the body armour and weapons.
> While I can understand the military reason for that (blind your enemies!
> or make yourself 'invisible' like skyscrapers with reflective curtain
> walls) this is a bit counter-productive here, especially the army in the
> background. Maybe do something about the atmosphere which tends to blur
> all colours a bit too much.


I don't agree. I think it is a perfect representation of that style. The 
liking of art deco shows. :-)
I normally like crisp images but I think the atmosphere really adds 
atmosphere.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 08:50:01
Message: <web.591eb19ffb337a1116086ed00@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 18-5-2017 14:05, Simon J. Cambridge wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > Again, going back to basics, I tried something else as well. I suppose I was
> > inspired here by a teenage visit to Brezhnev's russia, and all those heroic
> > posters embalzoned on the walls, in the squares and on the underground. If you
> > have heroes, pose them dramatically, that's what I say! I was tempted to have
> > Lenin ordering a taxi somewhere, but decided against it.
> >
> > I also have a liking for Art-Deco, which is why all the reflective surfaces and
> > the design of the sky-ships and the helms. Too much 'Flash Gordon' at saturday
> > morning pictures, perhaps.
> >
> > Anyway! What do you think?
> >
> > (Again, no radiosity and only two light sources and I messed with the contrast a
> > little post render.)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Simon.
> >
> > http://www.landofthefirst.com/
> >
>
> Reading the title, I was at first tempted to frantically look for the
> "What to do if..." booklets.  :-)
>
> I like the scene but a bit less than the previous one. I think this is
> due to the extremely high reflectivity of the body armour and weapons.
> While I can understand the military reason for that (blind your enemies!
> or make yourself 'invisible' like skyscrapers with reflective curtain
> walls) this is a bit counter-productive here, especially the army in the
> background. Maybe do something about the atmosphere which tends to blur
> all colours a bit too much.
>
> --
> Thomas


Indeed! I agree that such an obvious and high reflectivity on the armors is a
waste. especially on such an otherwise cool picture !

If time was your issue, actually, even just specular would give better results
here. It has been the problem for so many pov pictures in the newsgroups and
forums historically, but now that there are:
*blurry reflections
*albedo settings everywhere to conserve energy,
*many shading models
*... so many unbiased raytracers everywhere outside pov

Mere "raytraced reflections" simply should no longer be considered a good
selling point for POV and used cautiously

Maybe we actually have bad defaults, and Fresnel, with conserve energy should be
on!


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From: Simon J  Cambridge
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 11:15:00
Message: <web.591ed2ddfb337a11904de6aa0@news.povray.org>
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
> Reading the title, I was at first tempted to frantically look for the
> "What to do if..." booklets.  :-)
>
> I like the scene but a bit less than the previous one. I think this is
> due to the extremely high reflectivity of the body armour and weapons.
> While I can understand the military reason for that (blind your enemies!
> or make yourself 'invisible' like skyscrapers with reflective curtain
> walls) this is a bit counter-productive here, especially the army in the
> background. Maybe do something about the atmosphere which tends to blur
> all colours a bit too much.
>
> --
> Thomas
>

Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>
> I don't agree. I think it is a perfect representation of that style. The
> liking of art deco shows. :-)
> I normally like crisp images but I think the atmosphere really adds
> atmosphere.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

"Mr" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>
> Indeed! I agree that such an obvious and high reflectivity on the armors is a
> waste. especially on such an otherwise cool picture !
>
> If time was your issue, actually, even just specular would give better results
> here. It has been the problem for so many pov pictures in the newsgroups and
> forums historically, but now that there are:
> *blurry reflections
> *albedo settings everywhere to conserve energy,
> *many shading models
> *... so many unbiased raytracers everywhere outside pov
>
> Mere "raytraced reflections" simply should no longer be considered a good
> selling point for POV and used cautiously
>
> Maybe we actually have bad defaults, and Fresnel, with conserve energy should be
> on!

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. As I said, I went right back to basics
with everything.

And it isn't that time is an issue - though it does result in hair loss when a
24 hour render reveals itself to be a complete mess - I just feel there must be
a better way to get good results without ramping everything up to the max.

I must confess that I haven't played with albedo too much, but blurred
reflections? I thought that was Uberpov? Or is there a cunning technique for
bulk standard pov?

Cheers

Simon.

PS. Thomas, that is exactly the idea. High reflectivity to confuse the enemy. I
shall tinker. This was only a first draft.


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From: Alain
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 15:48:35
Message: <591f13d3$1@news.povray.org>
Le 17-05-19 à 07:12, Simon J. Cambridge a écrit :

> I must confess that I haven't played with albedo too much, but blurred
> reflections? I thought that was Uberpov? Or is there a cunning technique for
> bulk standard pov?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Simon.

Blured reflections have been there for a long time... but not as a 
regular feature.
You can get it using micro-normals. Normals scalled very small. Need 
good antialiasing to look nice.
You also can use averaged normals. Many large scale normals randomly 
shifted averaged together. You need to average whole textures to have it 
work. Make for long render times. Will dramaticaly increase render times 
when blured reflection reflect another blured reflection.
With averaged normals, you'll make an object that is normally visible, 
but invisible in reflection (no_reflection) that use averaged normals, 
and a second one with no_image no_shadow using ordinary reflection or 
micro-normals.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 16:47:01
Message: <591f2185$1@news.povray.org>
Am 19.05.2017 um 13:12 schrieb Simon J. Cambridge:

> I must confess that I haven't played with albedo too much, but blurred
> reflections? I thought that was Uberpov? Or is there a cunning technique for
> bulk standard pov?

There is a cunning technique for everything in standard pov ;)


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 17:29:24
Message: <591f2b74$1@news.povray.org>
On 2017-05-19 04:49 AM (-4), Mr wrote:
> Maybe we actually have bad defaults, and Fresnel, with conserve energy should be
> on!

There is no maybe; POV-Ray does have bad defaults.  But changing them 
would break older scenes.


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 17:36:39
Message: <591f2d27$1@news.povray.org>
On 2017-05-19 07:12 AM (-4), Simon J. Cambridge wrote:
> I must confess that I haven't played with albedo too much, but blurred
> reflections? I thought that was Uberpov? Or is there a cunning technique for
> bulk standard pov?

The cunning technique in question:
 
http://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13

The Object Collection module RC3Metal implements this in a way that 
doesn't tie up your computer for the next two months, although it 
doesn't seem to work well with photons:
 
http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php?objectName=RC3Metal&contributorTag=Cousin%20Ricky


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From: Simon J  Cambridge
Subject: Re: The Reds Are Coming...
Date: 19 May 2017 19:15:00
Message: <web.591f4339fb337a11f7ed3350@news.povray.org>
Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> On 2017-05-19 07:12 AM (-4), Simon J. Cambridge wrote:
> > I must confess that I haven't played with albedo too much, but blurred
> > reflections? I thought that was Uberpov? Or is there a cunning technique for
> > bulk standard pov?
>
> The cunning technique in question:
>
> http://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:Language_Questions_and_Tips#Topic_13
>
> The Object Collection module RC3Metal implements this in a way that
> doesn't tie up your computer for the next two months, although it
> doesn't seem to work well with photons:
>
>
http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php?objectName=RC3Metal&contributorTag=Cousin%20Ricky

I am way ahead of you. After asking the question I then remembered seeing
something on 'brushed aluminium' from way back when. I went looking and found
RC3Metal and the wonders of averaged textures. I shall play.

Just to add that I have been investigating a little further with the image, but
still find myself liking the version I did with full on reflection! It's bold!
It's heroic! It's deco!

Once again, thanks for all the suggestions,

Simon.

PS. Too many degrees of freedom, and so little time...


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