Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

> Thanks but you are not seeing it from this side of the screen. *

Our hidden cameras see EVERYTHING.
Now get back to desk and continue laboring.


> Here is a close up as changing the eyes in Poser was the only change I
> made there.
> FYI the female model is a low res one. I don't think it even uses an
> image map for the body. So if I wanted more detail I would change it in
> Poser. Besides I don't want to get distracted by looking at the model. ;-)

And the tip of the sword has disappeared - obviously a green screen.
"GIRL WITH WINGS BRANDISHED SWORD IN DANCE STUDIO"
Fake news to forward the agenda to disarm scantily clad females.


> > I'm sure some of us have some slightly richer looking wood floor macros lying
> > about. ;)
> >
> As I implied to Thomas. The studio is a very old scene. At least ten
> years old if I made it in Moray. So any contributions are welcome. :-)

I'll see what I can isolate from the Secret Passage scene.
You'd think there would be a well developed wood floor macro or include file -
and having had to write the code to make an acceptable wood floor, I can see why
there might not be one.

> > Is there a way to light the room with HDRI?
> > Maybe just surround the room with one and add no_shadow?
>
> I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think it would work with three
> walls of mirrors.

I think you miss my point -
I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the image wouldn't
be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
I have very little experience with HDR, so perhaps someone could comment on how
that might best be implemented, if at all.


> * I have no idea why in this image the wings and clothes did not show.
> With the render time they should have been there.

Because media.
That's why media drives me crazy.

> I had two other unexpected results yesterday that has set me back a bit.

And that's always the case, isn't it - there's always _something_ to start a
cascade of stumbling blocks.

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On 16-11-2017 11:24, Stephen wrote:
> On 16/11/2017 02:23, Bald Eagle wrote:
>> This is coming along very nicely :)
> 
> Thanks but you are not seeing it from this side of the screen. *
> 
>> I like this second version a lot - the camera position just works 
>> better I
>> think.
>>
> 
> That was just because Kenneth wanted a hall of mirrors.
> 
> Remember that this is not an exhibition image but a test image for the 
> df3s. I placed it in my studio because of the flack I got for Lanya's 
> dress. ;-)
> I'm thinking of using the studio for my test environment because of 
> getting three additional views of the subject.

In itself, that is a good idea. However, you may come across situations 
where mirrors are not really appropriate for a testing environment. 
Personally, I am currently working on a "studio lighting" test scene for 
objects like sculptures, with three light sources (and a dim hdri).

To be sure, the object/texture determines what kind of environment it 
needs best for testing.

> 
> 
>> Enhancements:
[snip]
>> I'm sure some of us have some slightly richer looking wood floor 
>> macros lying
>> about. ;)
>>
> As I implied to Thomas. The studio is a very old scene. At least ten 
> years old if I made it in Moray. So any contributions are welcome. :-)

I have a macro, modified from work by Dan Hentschel in 2004. I shall put 
it in p.b.utilities.

> 
> 
>> Is there a way to light the room with HDRI?
>> Maybe just surround the room with one and add no_shadow?
>>
> 
> I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think it would work with three 
> walls of mirrors. I'm aware of the need for some sort of background. 
> That is why there are a couple of old chairs and a stack of mats. At one 
> time I had a table with a stereo and a mop and bucket. Just for interest.
> 
> 
> 
>> Just throwing out ideas before turning in for the night.
>>
>>
> 
> Thanks. I'm flattered over a test image.
> 
> * I have no idea why in this image the wings and clothes did not show. 
> With the render time they should have been there.
> But at least you can see that the model is low res and the eyes.

Hm... is the camera very close to the model? maybe there is some 
interference...

> 
> I had two other unexpected results yesterday that has set me back a bit. 
> :-(
> 


-- 
Thomas

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On 16/11/2017 11:43, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks but you are not seeing it from this side of the screen. *
> 
> Our hidden cameras see EVERYTHING.
> Now get back to desk and continue laboring.
> 

How did you know that I'm a card carrying member of the Labour party? :-P



>> Here is a close up as changing the eyes in Poser was the only change I
>> made there.
>> FYI the female model is a low res one. I don't think it even uses an
>> image map for the body. So if I wanted more detail I would change it in
>> Poser. Besides I don't want to get distracted by looking at the model. ;-)
> 
> And the tip of the sword has disappeared 

White out I assume.

- obviously a green screen.
> "GIRL WITH WINGS BRANDISHED SWORD IN DANCE STUDIO"

A variation on the traditional "Dirk Dance, for the Elder Races".
She is actually facing down a Kelpie.

> Fake news to forward the agenda to disarm scantily clad females.
> 
> 

There is a lot of talk about that in the news atm. I am aware of it and 
approve, if the truth be told. But since we have become a gentleman's 
club again. I don't suppose anyone will notice.



>>> I'm sure some of us have some slightly richer looking wood floor macros lying
>>> about. ;)
>>>
>> As I implied to Thomas. The studio is a very old scene. At least ten
>> years old if I made it in Moray. So any contributions are welcome. :-)
> 
> I'll see what I can isolate from the Secret Passage scene.
> You'd think there would be a well developed wood floor macro or include file -
> and having had to write the code to make an acceptable wood floor, I can see why
> there might not be one.
> 

There is one to lay cobblestones/bricks in regular patterns but not for 
floors. As far as I know.

I think I would want parquet flooring for my dance studio. None of those 
big planks with gaps and splinters. :P

"Stand up for your feet and your feet will stand up for you." One of my 
maxims in life. :)

>>> Is there a way to light the room with HDRI?
>>> Maybe just surround the room with one and add no_shadow?
>>
>> I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think it would work with three
>> walls of mirrors.
> 
> I think you miss my point -
> I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the image wouldn't
> be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).

I still don't see it for an inside scene. Not going from the HDR images 
I've seen. But if you can find what looks like a suitable one. I'll give 
it a go.

Since you gave me the idea for my next masterpiece. ;) I will use HDR in 
"Dirk Dance, for the Elder Races". I have a couple of ideas for the Kelpie.


> I have very little experience with HDR, so perhaps someone could comment on how
> that might best be implemented, if at all.
>
> 
>> * I have no idea why in this image the wings and clothes did not show.
>> With the render time they should have been there.
> 
> Because media.
> That's why media drives me crazy.
> 

I have to relearn it every time I stop using it. It will stick one of 
these days.

>> I had two other unexpected results yesterday that has set me back a bit.
> 
> And that's always the case, isn't it - there's always _something_ to start a
> cascade of stumbling blocks.
> 
> 

This is making me doubt my sanity. I'll strip the scene down to it's 
essentials and see what's going on.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Am 16.11.2017 um 12:43 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> I think you miss my point -
> I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the image wouldn't
> be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
> I have very little experience with HDR, so perhaps someone could comment on how
> that might best be implemented, if at all.

HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene. So
if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
illumination. (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)

Post a reply to this message

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

> HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene.

Indeed - but so many of us are poor - we have pockets empty of silver, jingling
round-tuits.

> So
> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
> illumination.

Well...
I might not go that far - I thought that the whole idea with a light probe was
the high dynamic range.
Perhaps there's a way to achieve the same effect with a "proper scene" - but I'd
probably need a tutorial.

> (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
> would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)

True, but I was thinking that there were warehouse HDRI's out there that might
be roughly equivalent to the dance studio.

Also - some of the best images are often the least "realistic".

Post a reply to this message

On 16/11/2017 14:13, clipka wrote:
> Am 16.11.2017 um 12:43 schrieb Bald Eagle:
> 
>> I think you miss my point -
>> I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the image wouldn't
>> be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
>> I have very little experience with HDR, so perhaps someone could comment on how
>> that might best be implemented, if at all.
> 
> HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene. So
> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
> illumination. (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
> would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)
> 

That's my gut feeling in English.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:

Nice. In the back mirror the wings seems to appear under the hairs...
How did you make this red hair? Meshes?

Post a reply to this message

Am 16.11.2017 um 16:09 schrieb Bald Eagle:

>> So
>> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
>> illumination.
> 
> Well...
> I might not go that far - I thought that the whole idea with a light probe was
> the high dynamic range.
> Perhaps there's a way to achieve the same effect with a "proper scene" - but I'd
> probably need a tutorial.

Actually, the primary idea in "high dynamic range light probe" is the
light probe part -- having something for your objects to reflect and be
illuminated by, without having to actually model that something. The
"high dynamic range" part merely solves a bottleneck that limited the
usefulness of light probes, namely the quality at which they could be
stored in image files.

That bottleneck does not exist when your backdrop and illumination
source is a genuine scene rather than just a fancy picture.

As a matter of fact, you're benefiting from POV-Ray's internal high
dynamic range capabilities each time you use a classic light source with
a brightness value above 1. (Or even values below that, if you're using
the "albedo" syntax for specular highlights.)

Post a reply to this message

On 16/11/2017 19:18, Fractracer wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> 
> Nice. In the back mirror the wings seems to appear under the hairs...
> How did you make this red hair? Meshes?
> 

Yes a standard Poser hair mesh. It takes no account of intersecting with 
other meshes,

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

>
> >>> Is there a way to light the room with HDRI?
> >>> Maybe just surround the room with one and add no_shadow?
> >>
> >> I'm not too keen on that idea. I don't think it would work with three
> >> walls of mirrors.
> >
> > I think you miss my point -
> > I was thinking about using the HDR _only_ as a light source - the
> > image wouldn't be visible in the scene at all (unless you had windows).
>
> I still don't see it for an inside scene. Not going from the HDR images
> I've seen. But if you can find what looks like a suitable one. I'll give
> it a go.
>

Clipka wrote...
> HDRI illumination is just a poor man's substitute for a proper scene. So
> if you already have a complete room, there's no point in using HDRI for
> illumination. (As a matter of fact it would be counter-productive, as it
> would illuminate the objects in a way that wouldn't match the scenes.)

I'm still a virgin when it comes to trying out HDRI... but Clipka's comments
raise some questions for me (or else/maybe they clarify something that I've
always wondered about.)

My assumption of HDRI has always been that it's basically meant to take the
place of scene lights-- and that it's *most* useful for Sun-lit scenes-- i.e., a
light probe image with the Sun actually visible. (OR, something like an indoor
light probe with several candles as the only illumination.) And that the
rendered scene uses the MUCH-brighter Sun (or small candle flames) *as* the
*distinct* light source(s)-- those sources naturally casting scene-object
shadows as if they are actual bright lights-- and with the rest of the light
probe image functioning more or less as a straight environnment map, for the
remaining soft lighting. (Like typical radiosity results when using a
low-dynamic range image on a large sphere.) In other words, the only real reason
for an HDRI light probe would be for its VERY bright lights, relative to the
rest of its image.

That's my own naive understanding, anyway.

For an enclosed room like the dance hall, it seems to me that a typical LDR
image-plus-radiosity would give equally realistic results (unless the room
contained a SUPER-bright light somewhere.)

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