Got around to removing the beta 27 through Add/Remove Programs (no 
uninstaller for the beta yet?), removed the subfolder out of 
AppData\roaming and retried the install with User Account Control off. I'd 
have tried it with UAC on but didn't take the time to find out what that 
route might do, sorry.

Nothing went wrong at all. Rendered the demo files and benchmark afterward, 
too. Perfect.

What's really thrown me for a loop is where I discovered my POV files were 
being put. A little oversight by me, I suspect, maybe missing a note given 
somewhere about them going elsewhere now. Perhaps a few months ago I had 
done a beta /install switch, so maybe that's when it started. This folder I 
was never aware of is:

C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows 
v3.7

Only subfolders in there are \help and \scenes, which is probably known to 
you, Chris, but if I hadn't been looking for files to backup during this 
beta 27 install I doubt I'd ever have noticed. Although, I do recall 
something said about making some changes to file locations. Unfortunately I 
haven't been paying enough attention lately.

This is a very curious thing to me, since somehow I was opening, rendering 
and closing about a dozen files these past few months (yep, other than a 
particular one I haven't been busy with POVing) without realizing the change 
from the usual folder path I'm accustomed to in C:\Program Files.
So in doing file backups before installing then replacing them into the new 
C:\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7 folder, and opening into POV, 
suddenly I was seeing older changes and incorrect file dates. Using Save 
as... wasn't showing me enough of the path so I mistakenly thought it was 
still in the pre-beta place.

Hope this makes others who aren't aware of this as of yet keep from losing 
or mixing up their files.

I guess the most important question to ask would be, how are files going to 
be accessed for backup purposes (among other typical file processes) by the 
end user if this location isn't obvious?

Oh, and thanks once more to all involved with the work on these beta(s).
-- 
/*bob hughes*/

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:02 +1000, Chris Cason
<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\POV-Ray\v3.7\Windows\Engine\GUIExtensions
>
>The registry is not used (I reverted to the old INI file system: see the
>release notes).
>

Duh! Thanks Chris I forgot about "pvengine.ini". The GUI works now, other than
it does not return the rendered image. But that has been the case in all the
betas, I have tried, so I assume that you will get round to it when you can.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> Duh! Thanks Chris I forgot about "pvengine.ini". The GUI works now, other than
> it does not return the rendered image. But that has been the case in all the
> betas, I have tried, so I assume that you will get round to it when you can.

I really don't think I'll have time to look into GUIEXT's in the short to
medium term - the fix is likely to be simple but needs testing (I don't
have any GUIEXT's installed) and the source is out there for others to poke at.

Also, the author of at least one GUIEXT has had access to our revision
control system for more than a year but hasn't had time to fix it either:
given that, I have taken the approach that the issues with them can't be
that serious.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

Bob Hughes wrote:
> somewhere about them going elsewhere now. Perhaps a few months ago I had 
> done a beta /install switch, so maybe that's when it started. This folder I 
> was never aware of is:
> 
> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows 
> v3.7

I'm not familiar with this path. Certainly, the path itself isn't something
that I have coded explicitly into the app. I suspect it's a Vista 'feature'
related to redirecting modified data out of program files and into a users
local profile. If this is still occurring with the version that comes with
a installer let me know and I'll look up its meaning.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

Bob Hughes wrote:
> Got around to removing the beta 27 through Add/Remove Programs (no 
> uninstaller for the beta yet?), removed the subfolder out of 

that *is* the uninstaller (at least, the 'correct' way of uninstalling). or
you could just run the installer again (not intuitive, but that's MSI's for
you). the use of a stand-alone uninstaller seems to have more or less gone
out of vogue.

> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows 
> v3.7

http://www.itwriting.com/blog/141-peeking-into-vistas-virtual-store.html
gives some background. the current beta should not write anything to the
program files folder.

-- Chris

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:13:09 +1000, Chris Cason
<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> Duh! Thanks Chris I forgot about "pvengine.ini". The GUI works now, other than
>> it does not return the rendered image. But that has been the case in all the
>> betas, I have tried, so I assume that you will get round to it when you can.
>
>I really don't think I'll have time to look into GUIEXT's in the short to
>medium term - the fix is likely to be simple but needs testing (I don't
>have any GUIEXT's installed) 
>
That does not surprise me :)

>Also, the author of at least one GUIEXT has had access to our revision
>control system for more than a year but hasn't had time to fix it either:
>given that, I have taken the approach that the issues with them can't be
>that serious.
>
The issues are not important and I'm more than willing to put up with having to
Alt-Tab to PovRay to see the rendered image. The speed up using Pov 3.7 is worth
the slight inconvenience.
As an aside the only other inconvenience is, I cannot see the sample images in
the material editor but then I can render them in 3.6.
I do not expect Hugo to waste time on getting the GUIEXT's working for a Beta
Pov when he is trying to prepare his program for its final release.
So no worries, no pressure :)
Keep up the good work.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in 
message news:4871f492@news.povray.org...
> Bob Hughes wrote:
>> Got around to removing the beta 27 through Add/Remove Programs (no
>> uninstaller for the beta yet?), removed the subfolder out of
>
> that *is* the uninstaller (at least, the 'correct' way of uninstalling). 
> or
> you could just run the installer again (not intuitive, but that's MSI's 
> for
> you). the use of a stand-alone uninstaller seems to have more or less gone
> out of vogue.

I see... ok. This was something in the 3.6 installation so I noticed it 
missing from 3.7. And I actually shouldn't have said "Add/Remove", thinking 
back to XP there since Vista just calls it Uninstall now (like that matters! 
heh).

>> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\POV-Ray for 
>> Windows
>> v3.7
>
> http://www.itwriting.com/blog/141-peeking-into-vistas-virtual-store.html
> gives some background. the current beta should not write anything to the
> program files folder.

Showing my ineptitude by not knowing what all Vista encompasses by now, 
having used it for the past 8 months. Apparently I can set POV to Run as 
Administrator and bypass the VirtualStore "feature". I wasn't before now 
simply because all appeared to be correct with both 3.6 and 3.7 beta.
Interestingly, there's only a biscuit.bmp in a 3.6 scenes\advanced subfolder 
there. However, 3.6 obviously caused Vista to put something there for it 
too.

Speaking of the scenes folder... realizing the 3.7 beta is putting one into 
the other path at

C:\Users\*name*\AppData\roaming\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7

and none into the usual place at

C:\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7

I guess the confusing thing for me is how that, together with the other 
potential file placement above, will affect things. Would it be possible to 
have the installer ask to create a location for scene files? Maybe default 
to C:\Scenes\ and likewise for a file output location, such as 
C:\Renderings\ while I'm on the subject of default file locations.

The way the new beta installer does things has probably been planned awhile 
and I'm just wondering if this was all thought about already-- or if the 
Vista OS is causing some extra complications to arise.

Only now read a little more about VirtualStore... it's mentioned it might 
not always exist in the future.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb530198.aspx

-- 
/*bob hughes*/

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason wrote:

> that *is* the uninstaller (at least, the 'correct' way of uninstalling). or
> you could just run the installer again (not intuitive, but that's MSI's for
> you). the use of a stand-alone uninstaller seems to have more or less gone
> out of vogue.

I didn't yet look at beta 27, but not having a stand-alone uninstaller
is different from not providing an uninstall link, which would probably
just have to be something like "[systemdir]msiexec /x {productcode}"

Post a reply to this message

Bob Hughes wrote:

> Interestingly, there's only a biscuit.bmp in a 3.6 scenes\advanced 
> subfolder there. 

Probably the only sample scene you actually rendered
with 3.6 on Vista without administrator privileges.

> Speaking of the scenes folder... realizing the 3.7 beta is putting one 
> into the other path at
> 
> C:\Users\*name*\AppData\roaming\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7
> 
> and none into the usual place at
> 
> C:\Program Files\POV-Ray for Windows v3.7

That is actually the intended solution of the Vista problems:
Install ini and scene files where the user is allowed to write
in the first place, then you need no virtual store.

Post a reply to this message

Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> I was able to install under Vista as an ordinary user (no admin). I had to
> choose a different install path, and also had to click to ignore several
> errors during install (where the installer attempts to do things like set
> admin keys or install fonts - none of these are essential). No registry
> editing was needed to get the installed program to work. I'm not sure what
> went awry in your case.

So, I tried to install it using the default location (Program Files).  I get a
permission error when it tries to copy the files (can't write to the
directory). I don't get the usual UAC prompt like I do installing other
programs.  I would assume that coping the files would be done by elevating to
Administrator or SYSTEM privs first, but I have the feeling it is trying to
copy the files as the local user instead.  That probably also explains the
other errors you get (normal user can't muck with those either).

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