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Jaime Vives Piqueres wrote:
>
> > Yes. The trick is that with Mac OS you setup everything before the install,
> > not during it. I find it very annoying to have to sit next to a computer
> > for an hour just to press a button every once in a while.
>
> Latest Linux installtions are not this way. With RH 6.2, [...]
As for Slackware 8.0, you have two "interactive" parts in the install.
The installation setup part (partitions, which packages to install,
etc.), after which the packages are copied to the disk (and you can
go take a break, then). Then the distro setup part, where you
configure network, mouse, etc.
Anyway, you'll probably reboot after that and continue tweaking your
freshly installed distro, so I don't think that the two "interactive"
parts are a nuisance. The second part simply never ends, it's called
"day-to-day usage". :-)
Copying the whole distro can take some 30 minutes (it of course
only depends of your hardware). The interactive part can be done
quickly if you know what you want.
--
Adrien Beau - adr### [at] free fr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>
> So you have very "standard" hardware? Last summer I installed a Linux just
> for "fun". It was no fun and took much longer than a Windows NT install.
I found that Windows 2000 installs easily take as much time
as Linux ones. At least 45 minutes, and I've installed it
enough times to know that this is a good estimate. Plus
16 minutes to read the 4 boot disks. Yes, that's four minutes
per boot disk. Doh!
> In particular I missed any useful documentation.
This can be a problem at boot time, if you don't have a
hard-printed manual or another computer up and running.
Better plan it ahead and print some...
Once installed, take a look a /usr/doc (Slackware has
several hundreds of megabytes of *text* documents),
especially /usr/doc/Linux-HOWTO. Those are great. Also
http://www.linuxdoc.org/ which hosts the howtos and
also several free good books.
> Nothing was straight
> forward as one would expect and it would never keep its TCP/IP configuration
At least I can say it never occured to me on Slackware.
Never had to touch anything TCP/IP-related after initial
setup.
> So my major concern is if it makes sense to install a system in less than an
> hour and have it up and running well. I wouldn't even need X-windows, I
> just need it to boot quickly and it should be easy to turn on/off what I
> want with some tool rather than hacking configuration files.
Well, a basic Slackware could do. Or ZipSlack, since you won't
need any partition (just unzip, edit the batch file, and run
from DOS).
Expect to edit one or two files (or change their execution
authorization with chmod) if you want to turn on/off things.
> It has to be
> fool-proof because I never read any documentation...
You'll have a hard-time then. A minimum reading (or
online-forum browsing) is needed.
--
Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>
> The average Mac OS takes 10 minutes ;-) But seriously, 45 minutes for Linux
> sounds good. I assume it doesn't require much manual tweaking either?
I don't believe it. Or the files are already on the hard-disk
and you only need to do the setup? Simply copying the files
from a CD-Rom should take more than that.
--
Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs
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In article <3B53F40E.D8FDB5F0@ignorancia.org> , Jaime Vives Piqueres
<jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
>> want with some tool rather than hacking configuration files. It has to be
>> fool-proof because I never read any documentation...
>
> Well, I think perhaps Linux is not for you...
You might be right. I hate command line interfaces and am not very good
using them (I never had a system without a built-in graphical user
interface). As said, I would just need it as a playground web server and to
test and see if POV-Ray code changes compile with gcc.
I would use FreeBSD but the particular PC emulation I need to run it on
refuses to accept the boot discs. I don't have a PC myself, so I can't just
put it on one (and I am not at home all year long to use my parents PCs).
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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In article <3B5402D7.25F437E2@sycomore.fr> , Adrien Beau
<adr### [at] sycomorefr> wrote:
>> The average Mac OS takes 10 minutes ;-) But seriously, 45 minutes for Linux
>> sounds good. I assume it doesn't require much manual tweaking either?
>
> I don't believe it. Or the files are already on the hard-disk
> and you only need to do the setup? Simply copying the files
> from a CD-Rom should take more than that.
No. Mac OS 9 is about 200 MB full install. The files are copied from CD to
disk using an installer application. It is a manual configuration which
installs everything but Java. If you calculate it, it is actually not very
fast considering that the CD-ROM drives can read more than 2 MB/s.
Of course, for fairness I have to say that just like with Windows there are
no applications installed. But then again, most applications are installed
by just dragging and dropping the application from CD to disk (even for MS
Office).
As you can see, I am very used to non-command line interfaces and fool-proof
installs, so Jaime Vives Piqueres is probably right and its not for me.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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> I found that Windows 2000 installs easily take as much time
> as Linux ones. At least 45 minutes, and I've installed it
> enough times to know that this is a good estimate. Plus
> 16 minutes to read the 4 boot disks. Yes, that's four minutes
> per boot disk. Doh!
faster (if your using a FAT32 drive) to install a very minimal win95 then
run win2k set-up and select a new installation, copy all the cabs to the had
first as well. doing this also gives you a backup file manager should win2k
cark it.
--
Rick
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://Kitty5.com
Hi-Impact database driven web site design & e-commerce
TEL : +44 (01625) 266358 - FAX : +44 (01625) 611913 - ICQ : 15776037
POV-Ray News & Resources - http://Povray.co.uk
PGP Public Key
http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:25:35 +0200, "Thorsten Froehlich"
<tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>>>The average Mac OS takes 10 minutes ;-)
>> A custom installation?
>Yes. The trick is that with Mac OS you setup everything before the install,
>not during it. I find it very annoying to have to sit next to a computer
>for an hour just to press a button every once in a while.
But you still invest that time, right? :) Besides, most Linux
distributions are already like that, too.
>> It ran perfectly fine right from the beginning.
>So you have very "standard" hardware?
WOW, that's a bold claim! :) Nothing in this hardware is standard,
nothing at all. It is a K6/233 on a Taiwanese brandless mobo, one of
the IDE ports is dead and has to be switched off from the BIOS, the
power supply is horrible and I put 4 big capacitors in parallel to
filter the noise, the RAM gives a 'Memory Test Failed' error on
reboot, the video is a brandless S3 ViRGE 925 clone, the keyboard is
Bulgarian, the mouse is Chinese... you get the picture. In the times
of yore when this PC ran Windows 95, an uptime of 6 hours was a reason
enough to party.
>Last summer I installed a Linux just
>for "fun". It was no fun and took much longer than a Windows NT install.
My experience shows that the time NT takes to install is not the
matter, it's the time it takes to recover the lost data.
>In particular I missed any useful documentation.
How so? What was the distro? Slack 8 comes with a whole CD of docs,
HOWTOs, the SlackWare book etc. Same goes for most other distros.
>Nothing was straight forward as one would expect
Ditto :-)
>and it would never keep its TCP/IP configuration
Odd. That sounds interesting. Any details?
>I found it very annoying and removed it after three month (by that time my
>father wanted the partition back).
It's a choice, after all.
>> Of course, with Linux you can tweak and tune all you like.
>I know. I was more up to any improvements in the default installation.
Precisely. The good thing is, I have made my own default installation.
I have never had that much control under Windows, not even with
98Lite.
>I don't to have to tweak the system for weeks until I can use it.
Depends on what you call 'using.' If you are building a firewall, of
course you'll have to tweak it. Same goes for a web server, proxy etc.
A user system is usually ready straight out of the box.
>I am not interested in learning the setup of Linux after all. And I am planning
>another install in a PC emulation on Macs in order to run apache/mysql/php.
You'll run Linux on an emulated PC on a Mac? Wow... must be a hell of
an emulator!
>So my major concern is if it makes sense to install a system in less than an
>hour and have it up and running well.
Slack, RedHat, Mandrake or Debian should do the job.
>I wouldn't even need X-windows, I just need it to boot quickly and it should
>be easy to turn on/off what I want with some tool rather than hacking
>configuration files.
What would you need to start / stop? Daemons? Servers?
>It has to be fool-proof because I never read any documentation...
Nothing is fool-proof, fools are so ingenious.
Seriously, if you want to set it up for serious work, you'll have to
read some. Usually the HOWTOs are enough.
Good luck.
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:25:35 +0200, Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
>fool-proof because I never read any documentation...
The sort of person who electricutes himslf with the Christmas
tree lights :-)
No pain, no gain.
--
Cheers
Steve email mailto:ste### [at] zeroppsuklinuxnet
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps.
web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/
or http://start.at/zero-pps
10:46am up 3 days, 12:47, 2 users, load average: 1.00, 1.07, 1.04
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In article <knb8ltg4qaj4kjbraeidm311p39goo3k4v@4ax.com> , Peter Popov
<pet### [at] vipbg> wrote:
>>In particular I missed any useful documentation.
>
> How so?
Well, I did a custom install to keep it small, but couldn't figure out what
to install other than man pages.
>>and it would never keep its TCP/IP configuration
>
> Odd. That sounds interesting. Any details?
Very simple. The system was supposed to use two network connections. One
was Ethernet, the other ISDN. Now, on the Ethernet the IP address was
supposed to be static. I got that to work without problems. However, this
way it would refuse to connect via isdn to anything because it would have
needed a second (dynamic) IP address. It would always and only use the
static one. Switching to dynamic on both ports worked, but made the system
useless as a network server for me.
The distro was Suse which supposedly comes with very good ISDN support
because isdn is very popular in Germany.
> You'll run Linux on an emulated PC on a Mac? Wow... must be a hell of
> an emulator!
Virtual PC from Connectix. It is very fast because it uses a kind of just
in time compilation of the emulated code. I can get POV-Ray to more than
80% of the native Mac version speed. One only has to turn off any preview
because the graphic emulation is really slow compared to "native" graphics
cards. And that makes it such a good server for me. I don't want X windows
- it would just slow the emulation down.
There are other tricks I can play, like running multiple PCs at the same
time. It would be good for developing network rendering one day...
>>I wouldn't even need X-windows, I just need it to boot quickly and it should
>>be easy to turn on/off what I want with some tool rather than hacking
>>configuration files.
>
> What would you need to start / stop? Daemons? Servers?
Apache, PHP, MySQL, and an ftp client. Nothing else, it should boot as fast
as possible to I can turn it on on demand (the emulator consumes lots of
memory).
> Seriously, if you want to set it up for serious work, you'll have to
> read some. Usually the HOWTOs are enough.
I know that I would have to read some docs, but I don't have the time or
patience for that because as said, I don't want to learn Linux, I just want
a simple little web server test environment. It wouldn't even have to be
secure (it would be visible in the internet) as I can just make backup
copies of the harddisk image file the emulator uses.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:34:41 +0200, "Thorsten Froehlich"
<tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>Well, I did a custom install to keep it small, but couldn't figure out what
>to install other than man pages.
The HOWTOs are another step forward, and then of course online
documentation. linuxdoc.org is a good start.
>Very simple. The system was supposed to use two network connections. One
>was Ethernet, the other ISDN.
Well, I have a modem and a lan on this machine (I am running Agent
under Wine right now :) ) I have a dynamic IP on the modem and a
static one on the lan card. This computer serves as a firewall, proxy
and cache for itself and the Windows machine. Works like a charm.
>> What would you need to start / stop? Daemons? Servers?
>
>Apache, PHP, MySQL, and an ftp client. Nothing else, it should boot as fast
>as possible to I can turn it on on demand (the emulator consumes lots of
>memory).
Will do.
Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg
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