On 01/02/2015 12:17, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> It seems to be like POV-Ray is becoming obsolete - much like the vibrant
> FractInt community I used to inhabit. In it's day, FractInt was the
> daddy. No end of other programs quoted FractInt compatibility as a
> feature - because it had the best speed and by far the most options and
> best documentation of anything you could get.

I am afraid that you could be right. :-(
Incidentally, Fractint (the program that led me to PovRay) was last 
updated three years ago.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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>> Heh, and here I was thinking I just get trolled by Warp because
>> C++ is clearly better.
>
> Is it?

Clearly Warp thinks so.

>> (Does it scare anyone else that I don't know C++ yet I get paid to
>> produce commercial applications in C++?)
>
> Well done! That man. :-)

o_O

>> "OMG, ARE
>> YOU SERIOUS??! How some it's so much shorter? Haskell must be really
>> powerful. I guess nobody here would ever be able to understand it..."
>
> Well I don't. :-(

You don't understand *any* programming language, or just Haskell?

>> got presented with my latest dance exam award. (Not that my partner was
>> around... I seriously think she's got bored of me. I never seen to see
>> her anymore...)
>
> Toss her aside and get a young one. ;-)

But... she's 5 years younger them me! o_O

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On 02/02/2015 18:04, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> (Does it scare anyone else that I don't know C++ yet I get paid to
>>> produce commercial applications in C++?)
>>
>> Well done! That man. :-)
>
> o_O
>

I can't help but being impressed by someone who gets paid for what their 
not qualified to do.

>>> "OMG, ARE
>>> YOU SERIOUS??! How some it's so much shorter? Haskell must be really
>>> powerful. I guess nobody here would ever be able to understand it..."
>>
>> Well I don't. :-(
>
> You don't understand *any* programming language, or just Haskell?
>

I can read and mostly understand Basic and ABAP but not write programs.
I can write programs in PLC languages and do simple coding in machine 
code. I've never got my head around the the higher languages like C and 
its variants.

>>> got presented with my latest dance exam award. (Not that my partner was
>>> around... I seriously think she's got bored of me. I never seen to see
>>> her anymore...)
>>
>> Toss her aside and get a young one. ;-)
>
> But... she's 5 years younger them me! o_O

Okay get an older one. Be a toy boy. ;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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> I can't help but being impressed by someone who gets paid for what their
> not qualified to do.

*they're

To be fair, *nobody* in the room really knows C++ properly. I like to 
think I probably understand it better than my colleagues, if only 
because I've *tried* to understand, rather than just hitting it until 
the compiler errors go away...

[If Warp is reading this, he's probably either completely outraged or 
highly amused, I'm not sure which.]

>> You don't understand *any* programming language, or just Haskell?
>
> I can read and mostly understand Basic and ABAP but not write programs.
> I can write programs in PLC languages and do simple coding in machine
> code. I've never got my head around the the higher languages like C and
> its variants.

I had to look up ABAP. It scared me a little bit.

But that's nothing. Today I saw a code review on Stack Overflow. Nothing 
unusual there. Oh, except the language? LOLCODE.

Yes, there's an actual programming language called LOLCODE. Why does 
this exist?

In reference to Haskell... I think part of the problem is that a typical 
example program in Haskell is usually an implementation of a binary 
search tree, or a Huffman compression algorithm, or the 
Knuth-Morris-Pratt algorithm, or k-means clustering, or, you know, stuff 
the typical IT button pusher would understand.

Seriously, implementing those in *any* language is going to look kinda 
complicated. Haskell allows you to do it with way less verbosity. But if 
you have NO FREAKING IDEA what the program is trying to do, the lack of 
verbosity just makes it all the more baffling what's happening. If you 
wrote the same thing in Java, most people would still be baffled.

This is based on my observation that most "programmers" know bugger all 
about computing algorithms. Most of them don't seem to know what a 
binary tree is. Some of them don't even know what binary is! "Web 
developers" seem to be particularly useless; apparently "web developer" 
means "I know how to click on buttons in a content management system".

FizzBuzz, anyone?

>>> Toss her aside and get a young one. ;-)
>>
>> But... she's 5 years younger them me! o_O
>
> Okay get an older one. Be a toy boy. ;-)

My previous dance partner is a year older than my mum. Does that count?

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Am 02.02.2015 um 21:03 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
> To be fair, *nobody* in the room really knows C++ properly. I like to
> think I probably understand it better than my colleagues, if only
> because I've *tried* to understand, rather than just hitting it until
> the compiler errors go away...

That's indeed the best qualification for a software developer.

> I had to look up ABAP. It scared me a little bit.
>
> But that's nothing. Today I saw a code review on Stack Overflow. Nothing
> unusual there. Oh, except the language? LOLCODE.

If you want something really scary, try Brainfuck...

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On 02/02/2015 08:38 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 02.02.2015 um 21:03 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
>> To be fair, *nobody* in the room really knows C++ properly. I like to
>> think I probably understand it better than my colleagues, if only
>> because I've *tried* to understand, rather than just hitting it until
>> the compiler errors go away...
>
> That's indeed the best qualification for a software developer.

I find this mentality of "bash it until it stops complaining" to be 
really... unsatisfying. Surely if you actually understand a tool, you 
can get stuff done far more quickly...

OTOH, I spend a lot of time trying to configure Linux. Good luck ever 
finding out how anything works. :-P

>> But that's nothing. Today I saw a code review on Stack Overflow. Nothing
>> unusual there. Oh, except the language? LOLCODE.
>
> If you want something really scary, try Brainfuck...

Or, you know, Whitespace.

But seriously. You're asking for a code review... of LOLCODE? Surely 
observation #1 is "why did you develop this in LOLCODE?"

Of course, there's always Unlambda...

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Am 02.02.2015 um 21:48 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
> On 02/02/2015 08:38 PM, clipka wrote:
>> Am 02.02.2015 um 21:03 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
>>> To be fair, *nobody* in the room really knows C++ properly. I like to
>>> think I probably understand it better than my colleagues, if only
>>> because I've *tried* to understand, rather than just hitting it until
>>> the compiler errors go away...
>>
>> That's indeed the best qualification for a software developer.
>
> I find this mentality of "bash it until it stops complaining" to be
> really... unsatisfying. Surely if you actually understand a tool, you
> can get stuff done far more quickly...

... and far less error-prone.

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On 02/02/2015 21:50, clipka wrote:
> Am 02.02.2015 um 21:48 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
>> On 02/02/2015 08:38 PM, clipka wrote:
>>> Am 02.02.2015 um 21:03 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
>>>> To be fair, *nobody* in the room really knows C++ properly. I like to
>>>> think I probably understand it better than my colleagues, if only
>>>> because I've *tried* to understand, rather than just hitting it until
>>>> the compiler errors go away...
>>>
>>> That's indeed the best qualification for a software developer.
>>
>> I find this mentality of "bash it until it stops complaining" to be
>> really... unsatisfying. Surely if you actually understand a tool, you
>> can get stuff done far more quickly...
>
> .... and far less error-prone.

And in my book it is what used to be called call hacking. Or 
"N-word"-rigging.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 02/02/2015 20:48, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 02/02/2015 08:38 PM, clipka wrote:

>
> But seriously. You're asking for a code review... of LOLCODE? Surely
> observation #1 is "why did you develop this in LOLCODE?"
>

Because I could and look how clever I am. Would be my guess. ;-)

> Of course, there's always Unlambda...


As I said earlier in the thread. I find eavesdropping on your 
conversations educational. (And it sometimes gives me some street-cred 
with our ABAPers . Especially with the younger ones straight from Uni.)

The scary thing is that LOLCODE and Brainfuck make more sense to me than 
C sharp or C plus + plus.
I prefer to explicitly tell a m/c what to do rather than use the high 
level languages used today.
Years ago I asked for help writing a C++ program to work out a moving 
wave program. Warp tried to explain why I could not and should not use 
goto and gosub. I could understand the words but not the concepts.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 2-2-2015 23:37, Stephen wrote:
> As I said earlier in the thread. I find eavesdropping on your
> conversations educational. (And it sometimes gives me some street-cred
> with our ABAPers . Especially with the younger ones straight from Uni.)

Me too (about eavesdropping).

When I looked up ABAP and saw that it was developed by SAP, I got 
reminiscent nightmares from the time the Survey decided to switch their 
administration to SAP. Not only did it cost about 10 times what was 
expected initially but nothing worked really well any more.

>
> The scary thing is that LOLCODE and Brainfuck make more sense to me than
> C sharp or C plus + plus.
> I prefer to explicitly tell a m/c what to do rather than use the high
> level languages used today.
> Years ago I asked for help writing a C++ program to work out a moving
> wave program. Warp tried to explain why I could not and should not use
> goto and gosub. I could understand the words but not the concepts.
>
The best I could do years ago was FORTRAN 77...

-- 
Thomas

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