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On 11/1/2015 12:32 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
https://web.archive.org/web/20150907011523/https://wmich.edu/medieval/resources/IOE/index.html
>
>
> Not a pdf I am afraid but well usable. I found it recently when I got
> interested in Old English after reading the Beowulf translation by
> J.R.R. Tolkien. Interestingly, I found that there are a lot of O.E.
> words and sentence constructions that are similar to Dutch or Frisian
> (and German no doubt). Not so surprising as the language was spoken on
> both sides of the North Sea.
Thanks Thomas,
Chapters 1 and 4 give a 404, Not found.
To be honest Early English is a bit of a black hole to me. The earliest
I can read is Chaucer's Middle English.
I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Am 01.11.2015 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
> I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
> adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
Musing about Dutch and English and German, I'm somehow reminded of a
memorial plate on a Dutch church, which reported that the building had
suffered heavy damage in the 1940s from "beschieting dor de engelsen".
As tragic as the event surely was, for a German with some rudimentary
Westphalian language background it can invoke quite humorous
associations, as in the Westphalian dialect "Schiet" (spoken "sheet")
translates to "shit", and the German "Engel" is "angel"...
... so come again - _what_ happened to the church?! :P
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On 11/1/2015 10:00 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 01.11.2015 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
>
>> I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
>> adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
>
> Musing about Dutch and English and German, I'm somehow reminded of a
> memorial plate on a Dutch church, which reported that the building had
> suffered heavy damage in the 1940s from "beschieting dor de engelsen".
>
> As tragic as the event surely was, for a German with some rudimentary
> Westphalian language background it can invoke quite humorous
> associations, as in the Westphalian dialect "Schiet" (spoken "sheet")
> translates to "shit", and the German "Engel" is "angel"...
> .... so come again - _what_ happened to the church?! :P
>
For starters
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=beschieting+dor+de+engelsen%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=QZE2VqH9Mcu7UaH3s_AP#q=%22beschieting+dor+de+engelsen+translate
--
Regards
Stephen
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Am 01.11.2015 um 23:29 schrieb Stephen:
> On 11/1/2015 10:00 PM, clipka wrote:
>> Am 01.11.2015 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
>>
>>> I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
>>> adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
>>
>> Musing about Dutch and English and German, I'm somehow reminded of a
>> memorial plate on a Dutch church, which reported that the building had
>> suffered heavy damage in the 1940s from "beschieting dor de engelsen".
>>
>> As tragic as the event surely was, for a German with some rudimentary
>> Westphalian language background it can invoke quite humorous
>> associations, as in the Westphalian dialect "Schiet" (spoken "sheet")
>> translates to "shit", and the German "Engel" is "angel"...
>> .... so come again - _what_ happened to the church?! :P
>>
>
> For starters
>
>
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=beschieting+dor+de+engelsen%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=QZE2VqH9Mcu7UaH3s_AP#q=%22beschieting+dor+de+engelsen+translate
"Dry firing the English" - yes, that makes more sense... ;)
(Did you know that dry firing is bad for any gun? It can cause the
firing pin to become brittle and possibly fracture. Never, ever, dry
fire anyone else's gun without first asking their permission. And never,
ever, dry fire an Englishman. First make him drink a pint or two, _then_
give him the sack.)
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On 1-11-2015 23:00, clipka wrote:
> Am 01.11.2015 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
>
>> I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
>> adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
>
> Musing about Dutch and English and German, I'm somehow reminded of a
> memorial plate on a Dutch church, which reported that the building had
> suffered heavy damage in the 1940s from "beschieting dor de engelsen".
>
> As tragic as the event surely was, for a German with some rudimentary
> Westphalian language background it can invoke quite humorous
> associations, as in the Westphalian dialect "Schiet" (spoken "sheet")
> translates to "shit", and the German "Engel" is "angel"...
> ... so come again - _what_ happened to the church?! :P
>
LOL
[musing] Wish things had been that way indeed.
Shows interesting things about language evolution.
--
Thomas
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On 2-11-2015 2:08, clipka wrote:
> Am 01.11.2015 um 23:29 schrieb Stephen:
>> On 11/1/2015 10:00 PM, clipka wrote:
>>> Am 01.11.2015 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
>>>
>>>> I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
>>>> adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
>>>
>>> Musing about Dutch and English and German, I'm somehow reminded of a
>>> memorial plate on a Dutch church, which reported that the building had
>>> suffered heavy damage in the 1940s from "beschieting dor de engelsen".
>>>
>>> As tragic as the event surely was, for a German with some rudimentary
>>> Westphalian language background it can invoke quite humorous
>>> associations, as in the Westphalian dialect "Schiet" (spoken "sheet")
>>> translates to "shit", and the German "Engel" is "angel"...
>>> .... so come again - _what_ happened to the church?! :P
>>>
>>
>> For starters
>>
>>
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=beschieting+dor+de+engelsen%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=QZE2VqH9Mcu7UaH3s_AP#q=%22beschieting+dor+de+engelsen+translate
>
> "Dry firing the English" - yes, that makes more sense... ;)
>
> (Did you know that dry firing is bad for any gun? It can cause the
> firing pin to become brittle and possibly fracture. Never, ever, dry
> fire anyone else's gun without first asking their permission. And never,
> ever, dry fire an Englishman. First make him drink a pint or two, _then_
> give him the sack.)
>
Well, Stephen made a typing mistake: 'dor' instead of 'door' ;-) The
real meaning thus is: 'bombardment by the English'. The church visibly
was in the wrong location at the wrong time (which happens even to holy
objects, or more so).
--
Thomas
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On 1-11-2015 14:39, Stephen wrote:
> On 11/1/2015 12:32 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
https://web.archive.org/web/20150907011523/https://wmich.edu/medieval/resources/IOE/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Not a pdf I am afraid but well usable. I found it recently when I got
>> interested in Old English after reading the Beowulf translation by
>> J.R.R. Tolkien. Interestingly, I found that there are a lot of O.E.
>> words and sentence constructions that are similar to Dutch or Frisian
>> (and German no doubt). Not so surprising as the language was spoken on
>> both sides of the North Sea.
>
> Thanks Thomas,
> Chapters 1 and 4 give a 404, Not found.
> To be honest Early English is a bit of a black hole to me. The earliest
> I can read is Chaucer's Middle English.
> I could read or at least get the meaning of Modern Dutch on posters and
> adverts. Quite hand when travelling by train, I might add.
>
Strange about that 404. I believe that you can switch dates on the
Wayback Machine banner and so find the missing chapters. I just did it
now. Anyway, I downloaded the pages to be certain to have local access.
Middle English is already easier to read without help indeed. I have
always liked the challenge to try to read old texts, especially in a
historical settings which attracts me in the first place like the Early
Medieval period. And I am a bit envious of people like Tolkien who could
write and speak Old English as if it was his native tongue:
"On ǽrdagum wæs wuniende be norþdǽlum middangeardes sum cyning, þe ángan
dohtor hæfde. On his húse wæs éac án cniht óþrum ungelíc."
I hope the special characters will be readable. This the beginning of
Sellic Spell, a proto-Beowulf tale imagined by Tolkien and written in
O.E. by him. Can you understand what is written? Note that 'h' is
gutural aspiration as in German 'ach', and 'y' is 'ü', and some words
become clear :-)
--
Thomas
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On 11/2/2015 7:59 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>
> Well, Stephen made a typing mistake: 'dor' instead of 'door' ;-) The
> real meaning thus is: 'bombardment by the English'. The church visibly
> was in the wrong location at the wrong time (which happens even to holy
> objects, or more so)
Or possibly the original poster made it and I believed him to be
infallible. ;-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 11/2/2015 8:25 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Strange about that 404. I believe that you can switch dates on the
> Wayback Machine banner and so find the missing chapters. I just did it
> now. Anyway, I downloaded the pages to be certain to have local access.
>
I tried a date close to the posted one but one of the missing chapters
was still not there. Lost interest, I am afraid.
> Middle English is already easier to read without help indeed.
Indeed it is. I did have a year of Chaucer when I was at school and that
helps.
> I have
> always liked the challenge to try to read old texts, especially in a
> historical settings which attracts me in the first place like the Early
> Medieval period. And I am a bit envious of people like Tolkien who could
> write and speak Old English as if it was his native tongue:
>
Well I am not an academic and think those things should be left to them
and their ilk. ;-)
> "On ǽrdagum wæs wuniende be norþdǽlum middangeardes sum cyning, þe ángan
> dohtor hæfde. On his húse wæs éac án cniht óþrum ungelíc."
>
Not from the excerpt you posted but I could pick out more phrases from
the whole story. I don't know if being dyslectic helps or hinders. I
would certainly need a dictionary to go further.
> I hope the special characters will be readable. This the beginning of
> Sellic Spell, a proto-Beowulf tale imagined by Tolkien and written in
> O.E. by him. Can you understand what is written? Note that 'h' is
> gutural aspiration as in German 'ach', and 'y' is 'ü', and some words
> become clear :-)
Yes the characters are readable. It reminds me of an old friend who
could recite Chaucer in a broad Scottish accent. It was much more
understandable when spoken. At least to me.
Talking about old and ancient things and remembering the image you
posted a few years back. Have you read this article?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32532893
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 11/2/2015 1:08 AM, clipka wrote:
> "Dry firing the English" - yes, that makes more sense...;)
>
I read it as "Dry frying the English" at first.
> (Did you know that dry firing is bad for any gun? It can cause the
> firing pin to become brittle and possibly fracture. Never, ever, dry
> fire anyone else's gun without first asking their permission.
No I did not know that. But then I know very little about guns except
that they don't kill people. Or so I am told.
> And never,
> ever, dry fire an Englishman. First make him drink a pint or two,_then_
> give him the sack.)
That would be a pint or two of sack before giving him the order of the
boot. ;-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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