On 31/07/14 22:34, Doctor John wrote:
> 
> Didn't see that. What I saw was a crewman using a pole to adjust the
> foresail. Are you sure you got the timestamp right?
> 

OK I have just watched three times more. At ~1.30 I see what you're
referring to. My best bet is that he's using a boat-hook to grab a sheet
or other part of the running rigging that's fallen in the water. Either
that or he's washing off the blood having accidentally brained a fellow
crewman.

John
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>Either
> that or he's washing off the blood having accidentally brained a fellow
> crewman.

I hate it when that happens!

On a more serious note, it happens at:
0:33-0:34
1:19-1:23
1:24-1:27
1:35-1:36
1:38-1:40
1:42-1:44
2:09-2:14
2:16-2:17
etc...

Basically any time we see the leeward side of the boat, there'll be one 
guy spalshing a pole in the water, so I guess we can rule out trying to 
wash the blood off the pole.  If it was that violent, we'd have heard 
about it!

-- 
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/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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> Am 31.07.2014 23:05, schrieb Francois Labreque:

>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8ilsiloVE
>>>
>>> Fascinating when a good wind blows like the last couple of days.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>> Two questions:
>> 1 - What are the big planks on the sides of the boats? Are they
>> daggerboards? and if so, why are they on the sides of the boat, rather
>> than on the center of the hull?
>
> Why should they be on the center? They work just as fine at the sides.
> With the added avantage of not having to cut a gaping hole right into
> the bottom of the wooden hull :-P
>
I figure that having an essential part of your boat out there in the 
open where it can easily get caught on other boats, floating 
tree-trunks, etc, would be a disadvantage, especially if these boats are 
made for navigation in crowded waters, as Dr. John mentions.

Also, I've sailed boats from 3m-long Optimists, to 50m long sea-going 
cats that had no problem with the gaping hole in the middle of the hull. ;)
-- 
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/*   gmail.com     */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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> On 31/07/14 22:34, Doctor John wrote:
>> IIRC those are called (in English) leeboards. The boats look much like
>> Thames sailing barges with some differences. The leeboards have much the
>> same effect as daggerboards but having two (one either side of the
>> barge), independently controlled, facilitates sharp turns. Remember
>> these are (or were) working vessels and often worked in close proximity
>> to one another.
>>
>
> just thought of another reason. The barges used tidal waters. If you
> were above the low-water mark when the tide went out, the barge would
> settle on the mud and then list over to one side or the other. If you
> lowered both leeboards, they would help to keep her upright and thus
> prevent the shifting of cargo.
>
> John
>
This makes sense.

-- 
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Am 01.08.2014 03:01, schrieb Francois Labreque:

>> Am 31.07.2014 23:05, schrieb Francois Labreque:

>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8ilsiloVE
>>>>
>>>> Fascinating when a good wind blows like the last couple of days.
>>>>
>>>> Thomas
>>> Two questions:
>>> 1 - What are the big planks on the sides of the boats? Are they
>>> daggerboards? and if so, why are they on the sides of the boat, rather
>>> than on the center of the hull?
>>
>> Why should they be on the center? They work just as fine at the sides.
>> With the added avantage of not having to cut a gaping hole right into
>> the bottom of the wooden hull :-P
>>
> I figure that having an essential part of your boat out there in the
> open where it can easily get caught on other boats, floating
> tree-trunks, etc, would be a disadvantage, especially if these boats are
> made for navigation in crowded waters, as Dr. John mentions.

You'd raise them when getting so close to other vessels that you expect 
close contact (which would essentially be in the harbour only; mind, the 
idea in crowded waters is generally to steer clear enough to /not/ make 
contact at all ;-)), and you'd also have fenders dangling down the side 
of the ship in such conditions.

> Also, I've sailed boats from 3m-long Optimists, to 50m long sea-going
> cats that had no problem with the gaping hole in the middle of the hull. ;)

I guess those weren't the traditional wooden-hull type, were they?

A hole in the hull is no problem if its upper opening lies above sea 
level, but achieving that with a wooden construction is pretty 
challenging. Aside from providing additional surface and edges for water 
to potentially leak through, it would also be a structural problem. All 
in all, maybe it wouldn't be impossible, but just too much of a hassle, 
and mounting the daggerboards at the sides is certainly a far more 
practical solution for this type of ships.

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On 31-7-2014 23:05, Francois Labreque wrote:

>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8ilsiloVE
>>
>> Fascinating when a good wind blows like the last couple of days.
>>
>> Thomas
> Two questions:
> 1 - What are the big planks on the sides of the boats? Are they
> daggerboards? and if so, why are they on the sides of the boat, rather
> than on the center of the hull?

I suppose you could call them daggerboards and they serve the same 
function. These ships are flat-bottom freight ships (most of these are 
more than a 100 years old) and designed to sail in very shallow water 
across the former Zuiderzee and all kind of waterways. They are on the 
sides I suppose because otherwise they would take up too much hold 
space, and they are easy to manage up and down according to the listing 
of the ship.

>
> 2 - Why is there a guy repeatedly sticking a pole in the water at the
> 1:44 mark (approx.)  Is he checking the water depth? Trying to paddle to
> make his boat go faster?  Spear-fishing for dinner?

Yes, he is checking the water depth.

Thomas

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On 31-7-2014 23:59, Doctor John wrote:
> On 31/07/14 22:34, Doctor John wrote:
>>
>> Didn't see that. What I saw was a crewman using a pole to adjust the
>> foresail. Are you sure you got the timestamp right?
>>
>
> OK I have just watched three times more. At ~1.30 I see what you're
> referring to. My best bet is that he's using a boat-hook to grab a sheet
> or other part of the running rigging that's fallen in the water. Either
> that or he's washing off the blood having accidentally brained a fellow
> crewman.
>

Interesting explanations, especially the second one ;-)

As it happens, during the current competition, at some point two ships 
almost rammed each other. The captain of one of the ships jumped on the 
other one and started working with his fists :-)

Emotions can soar up quite rapidly during the event.

Thomas

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On 31-7-2014 23:43, Doctor John wrote:
> On 31/07/14 22:34, Doctor John wrote:
>> IIRC those are called (in English) leeboards. The boats look much like
>> Thames sailing barges with some differences. The leeboards have much the
>> same effect as daggerboards but having two (one either side of the
>> barge), independently controlled, facilitates sharp turns. Remember
>> these are (or were) working vessels and often worked in close proximity
>> to one another.
>>
>
> just thought of another reason. The barges used tidal waters. If you
> were above the low-water mark when the tide went out, the barge would
> settle on the mud and then list over to one side or the other. If you
> lowered both leeboards, they would help to keep her upright and thus
> prevent the shifting of cargo.
>

I have not heard of these here being used as you suggest but plausible. 
However, the bottoms being perfectly flat there is no listing when 
grounded, on sand banks particularly.

Thomas

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On 31-7-2014 23:34, Doctor John wrote:
> On 31/07/14 22:05, Francois Labreque wrote:
>> Two questions:
>> 1 - What are the big planks on the sides of the boats? Are they
>> daggerboards? and if so, why are they on the sides of the boat, rather
>> than on the center of the hull?
>>
>
> IIRC those are called (in English) leeboards. The boats look much like
> Thames sailing barges with some differences. The leeboards have much the
> same effect as daggerboards but having two (one either side of the
> barge), independently controlled, facilitates sharp turns. Remember
> these are (or were) working vessels and often worked in close proximity
> to one another.

Ah yes! I forgot to mention the ability to make sharp turns using the 
leeboards. In the video (and in others) you can see a couple of examples 
of that. An important feature too when tacking on canals.

Local television (Omrop Fryslan) is broadcasting the competition here 
and there are thrilling examples of fierce turning around a buoy by 
several ships at the same time

>
>> 2 - Why is there a guy repeatedly sticking a pole in the water at the
>> 1:44 mark (approx.)  Is he checking the water depth? Trying to paddle to
>> make his boat go faster?  Spear-fishing for dinner?
>>
>
> Didn't see that. What I saw was a crewman using a pole to adjust the
> foresail. Are you sure you got the timestamp right?

As I said below: he is constantly checking the water depth indeed.

Thomas

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On 1-8-2014 5:03, clipka wrote:

> I guess those weren't the traditional wooden-hull type, were they?

As a side note it must be said that these ships here have metal hulls. 
The change from wood to metal occurred at the end of the 19th century.

Thomas

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