On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:13:07 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> People are,
> according to them, just too lazy to find better jobs.

Even though many of them work two jobs or double shifts and still barely 
make ends meet.

> Just more of the
> same "the people are the problem, oh, wait.. I mean 'government', so
> lets give corporati... err, I mean the ric.. err, no.. 'individual
> entrepreneurs'..

"Job creators" is the new phrase I think you're looking for. ;)

Jim

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On 10/18/2013 1:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:13:07 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>
>> People are,
>> according to them, just too lazy to find better jobs.
>
> Even though many of them work two jobs or double shifts and still barely
> make ends meet.
>
>> Just more of the
>> same "the people are the problem, oh, wait.. I mean 'government', so
>> lets give corporati... err, I mean the ric.. err, no.. 'individual
>> entrepreneurs'..
>
> "Job creators" is the new phrase I think you're looking for. ;)
>
> Jim
>
lol Yeah, and I get that crap even from my father, who should know 
better, and votes Democratic. "Its funny how all the poor people seem to 
think they know better how to create jobs than the business owners." 
Because those people are creating so damned many of them in the US, 
instead of someplace else. I swear, if the damned Isle of Dr. Moreau was 
real, you would probably find half the so called "Job creators" 
investing in the new sweat shop start up on it, and the other half 
talking about how "sad it is" that American jobs are being lost, but 
both halves apposing any legislation making it illegal to use transgenic 
mutants as unpaid labor.

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On 10/19/2013 09:13 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 10/18/2013 1:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:13:07 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>>
>>> People are,
>>> according to them, just too lazy to find better jobs.
>>
>> Even though many of them work two jobs or double shifts and still barely
>> make ends meet.
>>
>>> Just more of the
>>> same "the people are the problem, oh, wait.. I mean 'government', so
>>> lets give corporati... err, I mean the ric.. err, no.. 'individual
>>> entrepreneurs'..
>>
>> "Job creators" is the new phrase I think you're looking for. ;)
>>
>> Jim
>>
> lol Yeah, and I get that crap even from my father, who should know
> better, and votes Democratic. "Its funny how all the poor people seem to
> think they know better how to create jobs than the business owners."
> Because those people are creating so damned many of them in the US,
> instead of someplace else. I swear, if the damned Isle of Dr. Moreau was
> real, you would probably find half the so called "Job creators"
> investing in the new sweat shop start up on it, and the other half
> talking about how "sad it is" that American jobs are being lost, but
> both halves apposing any legislation making it illegal to use transgenic
> mutants as unpaid labor.

Yeah, and we all know the government spends tax money at Joe's Bait & 
Tackle. No MegaPharm or Haliburton on the receiving end of that 
arrangement, nosiree.

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On 10/21/2013 2:51 PM, Shay wrote:
> On 10/19/2013 09:13 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> On 10/18/2013 1:35 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:13:07 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>>>
>>>> People are,
>>>> according to them, just too lazy to find better jobs.
>>>
>>> Even though many of them work two jobs or double shifts and still barely
>>> make ends meet.
>>>
>>>> Just more of the
>>>> same "the people are the problem, oh, wait.. I mean 'government', so
>>>> lets give corporati... err, I mean the ric.. err, no.. 'individual
>>>> entrepreneurs'..
>>>
>>> "Job creators" is the new phrase I think you're looking for. ;)
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>> lol Yeah, and I get that crap even from my father, who should know
>> better, and votes Democratic. "Its funny how all the poor people seem to
>> think they know better how to create jobs than the business owners."
>> Because those people are creating so damned many of them in the US,
>> instead of someplace else. I swear, if the damned Isle of Dr. Moreau was
>> real, you would probably find half the so called "Job creators"
>> investing in the new sweat shop start up on it, and the other half
>> talking about how "sad it is" that American jobs are being lost, but
>> both halves apposing any legislation making it illegal to use transgenic
>> mutants as unpaid labor.
>
> Yeah, and we all know the government spends tax money at Joe's Bait &
> Tackle. No MegaPharm or Haliburton on the receiving end of that
> arrangement, nosiree.
>
Because, of course, in your universe, no one that has a government job 
goes fishing either, but.. the economy works so much better if 4 people 
who buy their bait from the Coch Bros Bait and Yachts, the same week 
they fire 1,000 people, because they figured out that they could save a 
few million by doing so, and pocket it (possibly to buy one of the 
yachts, to put the bait on, is doing us "so" much good, by contrast.

And.. just to be clear... which side has been, generally, trying to pass 
legislation that at least controls, limits, and/or requires MegaPharm, 
or Halliburton to do their own f-ing clean up, or stop selling dangerous 
products, etc., and.. which one has cut regulations, insisted on 
**keeping** subsidies for them, and then lining their pockets with the 
resulting wind fall. Hint: Most of the money that elects Democrats is 
"union", which is why huge assed energy companies, and other big money 
people, have spent insane amounts of money, to push to kill unions. And, 
most of the stock is **not** owned by Democrats, in those same companies.

Or, you want a better example of why I find your position to be BS, 
there is one single, organization, which the same organization "claims" 
is "grass roots", the organization in question **funded**, in a large 
part by the Coch brothers, who keeps busing in all the supposed 
protestors. Well, until the latest one, when they stated, 
"Unfortunately, our ride decided to cancel, but show up anyway, lets 
just hope the money being funneled in for T-shirts and professionally 
made posters, doesn't dry up too." Maybe the Halliburtons of the world 
are finally realizing that it isn't working as intended too. lol

Also, if you think, for one damn moment, that, should one of yours get 
elected, or worse, that already have (since the big lie told by everyone 
one of them, to get elected) are actually interested in cutting one 
single cent from funding to mega-corporations, energy companies, or 
anyone else, and not from, instead, the general public, via the bullshit 
of, "The public taxes are supposed to return to the public, and as such, 
social programs ***are*** what they are paying for, but we will call 
them 'entitlements' and fight to cut them, while keeping massive 
kickbacks to big-oil", then you are not just clueless about what the 
problem is, you are totally delusional about who actually gives a damn 
about *FIXING IT*.

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On 10/21/2013 11:33 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>
> Because, of course, in your universe, no one that has a government job
> goes fishing either, but.. the economy works so much better if 4 people
> who buy their bait from the Coch Bros Bait and Yachts, the same week
> they fire 1,000 people, because they figured out that they could save a
> few million by doing so, and pocket it (possibly to buy one of the
> yachts, to put the bait on, is doing us "so" much good, by contrast.

In *our* universe, pushing money upwards benefits the government *and* 
the billionaires. I don't know what kind of Batman president you're 
waiting for to reverse this trend, but I haven't seen him in my lifetime.

> Hint: Most of the money that elects Democrats is
> "union",

With this kind of misinformation, it's no wonder you've got your 
political head on backwards.

> Also, if you think, for one damn moment, that, should one of yours get
> elected, or worse, that already have (since the big lie told by everyone
> one of them, to get elected) are actually interested in cutting one
> single cent from funding to mega-corporations,

One of mine? Let's see, there's Ron Paul. If you aren't familiar with 
Ron Paul's position and record on corporate welfare, look it up while 
you're clearing up that "union" thing.

Protecting the "too big to fail" is _your_ people's business.

  -Shay

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On 10/22/2013 10:26 AM, Shay wrote:
> On 10/21/2013 11:33 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>>
>> Because, of course, in your universe, no one that has a government job
>> goes fishing either, but.. the economy works so much better if 4 people
>> who buy their bait from the Coch Bros Bait and Yachts, the same week
>> they fire 1,000 people, because they figured out that they could save a
>> few million by doing so, and pocket it (possibly to buy one of the
>> yachts, to put the bait on, is doing us "so" much good, by contrast.
>
> In *our* universe, pushing money upwards benefits the government *and*
> the billionaires. I don't know what kind of Batman president you're
> waiting for to reverse this trend, but I haven't seen him in my lifetime.
>
But, funneling the money down to cities, districts, counties, and 
states.. that will solve it. We will just ignore the fact that the 
closer you get to the town level, the more likely it is that the people 
"in" the government are the ones that own everything in sight, and have 
all the money. Which is a real big reason towns often get screwed by the 
neighboring towns, who actually see a profit in allowing new businesses. 
The one being screwed.. usually is protecting the interests of the "down 
town", which is owned, entirely, by everyone from the mayor, to the town 
council. If you go up one level, to the county.. odds are that more than 
half of the people working on that level either own big businesses, 
stock in them, or have close friends that do. The state level.. oh hell, 
that one is really fun. You know that, by the latest estimates, Texas, 
whose leaders claim "we are America", but which one seceded from the 
union, and had to be dragged back in, is likely to see insurance rates 
sky rocket, precisely because they refuse to accept the expansions to 
government programs, and they are fighting tooth and nail against 
everything else, including exchanges. Meanwhile, even with the federal 
website having suffered a meltdown, Oregon has insured 10% of the people 
they know don't have it, purely through the expanded medicaid, and 
California is making even them look like idiots.

But, we have good old fox trotting out the three dimwits as evidence of 
failure - Moe - whose business is too small to be effected, Larry - who 
refuses to look at the exchange program, "on principle", even though 
someone else did for them, and it would end up costing them less money, 
and Curley - who is from Texas, where they have refused to implement any 
of it, and thus ***all*** of the increases they see coming are due to 
the refusal to participate.

And that is just the most blatant idiocy you can see with "state level" 
government. There is a reason that some things where taking out of their 
hands. Though.. I never have understood the idiocy of letting people 
elect, without having to have qualifications, training, understanding 
of, experience in, or even the ability to pass a 6th grade history, 
math, or science, exam, run school boards, instead of setting a bloody 
federal standard for it. Its like.. we think we need central government 
for shit that *isn't* necessary, some times, or where keeping an eye on 
things, without interfering much is a better solution, we need total 
control, but things that have a direct, obvious, and critical, impact on 
people.. well, those either are not, will not be, or, are being argued, 
quite vehemently, including by people like you, we should just leave to 
get fucked up in any inventive way the "locals" see fit.

>> Hint: Most of the money that elects Democrats is
>> "union",
>
> With this kind of misinformation, it's no wonder you've got your
> political head on backwards.
>
No, its reality. Yes, they have "some" big political donations, from the 
corporate sector, but its no where near the same as the other side. The 
attack on unions all over the country 100% of it by Republicans, and Tea 
Party people, doesn't make a shit load of sense, unless their motivation 
is to cut the legs out from under their opponents. Maybe you need to do 
some research.

>> Also, if you think, for one damn moment, that, should one of yours get
>> elected, or worse, that already have (since the big lie told by everyone
>> one of them, to get elected) are actually interested in cutting one
>> single cent from funding to mega-corporations,
>
> One of mine? Let's see, there's Ron Paul. If you aren't familiar with
> Ron Paul's position and record on corporate welfare, look it up while
> you're clearing up that "union" thing.
>
Yeah, heard of the guy. He is the one that can't stop lying all the 
time, right? See, that is his problem. Even if he had new ideas, and he 
doesn't, and had a clue how the economy really works, and you won't find 
an economist on the planet that says he does, he keeps lying about 
things, ranging from his own website claiming that Egypt was some sort 
of plot by Obama, to remove their "elected" dictator, to claims that a 
company he was heavily involved with, and personally signed off on the 
pamphlets for, he had no involvement with (well, being as the pamphlets 
where racist... I can see why he would say so..), to lying about 
"increases in defense spending", which where not increases, to news 
letters claiming that, ""I uncovered the New Money plans in my last term 
in the US Congress, and I held the ugly new bills in my hands. I can 
tell you - they made my skin crawl! These totalitarian bills were tinted 
pink and blue and brown, and blighted with holograms, diffraction 
gratings, metal and plastic threads, and chemical alarms. It wasn't 
money for a free people. It was a portable inquisition, a paper 'third 
degree' to allow the feds to keep track of American cash, and American 
citizens.", in his news letters, to a long list of other things that 
range from racist, to paranoid, to delusional, to just flat out plane, 
and simply **incorrect**.

The guy is a kook. That you, or anyone else, can admit to *any* of the 
absurd things he has said, or done, over the years, and not at least 
want to see real numbers, instead of assertions, about his supposed, 
"understanding of economics and how the government should work 
(obviously.. the first thing would be to get rid of that new colored 
money, being used to secretly track the populous...)", well..

Though, having looked some of this stuff up, to see what kind of things 
I could find on him (note, the newsletter, and its contents, along with 
interviews he claims he never had, after the fact, are all talked about 
on "multiple" news sites, and, in many cases, archived on his own bloody 
website(s), so..., it leaves me with a disturbing picture of what you 
think the government really is doing, and why you fear it, or any 
solution that doesn't involve dismantling it, so badly.

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Patrick Elliott <kag### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>>> Hint: Most of the money that elects Democrats is "union",
>>
>> With this kind of misinformation, it's no wonder you've got your political
>> head on backwards.
>>
> No, its reality.

Not yet. But if you move the keep moving the goalpost you might EVENTUALLY get
there.

> Though, having looked some of (Ron Paul's) stuff up, to see what kind of
> things I could find on him (note, the newsletter, and its contents, along
> with interviews he claims he never had, after the fact, are all talked about
> on "multiple" news sites, and, in many cases, archived on his own bloody
> website(s), so..., it leaves me with a disturbing picture of what you think
> the government really is doing, and why you fear it, or any solution that
> doesn't involve dismantling it, so badly.

Millions dead, Millions more in prison, and Trillions in corporate relief to
protect the interests of your totalitarian champions, and THIS is your criticism
of the opposition?!!

You're mad with power.

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On 10/23/2013 9:57 AM, Shay wrote:
> Patrick Elliott <kag### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
>>>> Hint: Most of the money that elects Democrats is "union",
>>>
>>> With this kind of misinformation, it's no wonder you've got your political
>>> head on backwards.
>>>
>> No, its reality.
>
> Not yet. But if you move the keep moving the goalpost you might EVENTUALLY get
> there.
>
>> Though, having looked some of (Ron Paul's) stuff up, to see what kind of
>> things I could find on him (note, the newsletter, and its contents, along
>> with interviews he claims he never had, after the fact, are all talked about
>> on "multiple" news sites, and, in many cases, archived on his own bloody
>> website(s), so..., it leaves me with a disturbing picture of what you think
>> the government really is doing, and why you fear it, or any solution that
>> doesn't involve dismantling it, so badly.
>
> Millions dead, Millions more in prison, and Trillions in corporate relief to
> protect the interests of your totalitarian champions, and THIS is your criticism
> of the opposition?!!
>
> You're mad with power.
>
And, of course, there is the lies you tell, because you can't imagine 
that someone could be apposed to any of those things themselves, yet 
still believe in government. Tell me, who do "you" trust to lie to you?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/10/22/who-do-you-trust-to-tell-you-lies/

Apparently, you think career politicians, with insane ideas, is a good 
option. People who, if they got what they wanted, would be the ones with 
all the power, while you would still have none at all. Because, nothing 
they want to do will make you as rich as they already are. I haven't 
seen a single "libertarian" politician who wasn't at least as monied as 
the people they claimed to appose, or a follower, who wasn't doing so 
because they had next to nothing, and the promise of this delusional 
political philosophy is a Robin Hood like claim that, "The Sheriff and 
false king, are stealing all your money and freedom, and we plan to give 
it back to you." Its just too bad that these people, when you actually 
look hard enough at what they really do say, and how they do act, and 
who they do help, bare a stronger resemblance to the crazy Robin Hood in 
Time Bandits, than ... any of the others.

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Patrick Elliott <kag### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> And, of course, there is the lies you tell, because you can't imagine that
> someone could be apposed to any of those things themselves, yet still believe
> in government.

Of course I can imagine it; I see it every day, a religion like any other. When
your god is displeased, he kills off a few-hundred-thousand people. When he's
happy, he gives alms to the poor ... or to billionaires. Mysterious are the ways
of your god.

Best not question him or you may end up in the sights of his predator drones.

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On 10/23/2013 11:57 AM, Shay wrote:
> Patrick Elliott <kag### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
>> And, of course, there is the lies you tell, because you can't imagine that
>> someone could be apposed to any of those things themselves, yet still believe
>> in government.
>
> Of course I can imagine it; I see it every day, a religion like any other. When
> your god is displeased, he kills off a few-hundred-thousand people. When he's
> happy, he gives alms to the poor ... or to billionaires. Mysterious are the ways
> of your god.
>
> Best not question him or you may end up in the sights of his predator drones.
>
Wow... Yeah, that is pretty much a conversation ender, even if the last 
post by you wasn't. Since you refuse to stop putting words in my mouth, 
claiming I support things, just because you are paranoid about them and 
can't see the difference, and insist on lying about what you "know" 
about me, and my position, based on that paranoia... yeah, the surest 
sign of a religion, since you bring that up, is an absolute, unshakable, 
certainty in your own position, to the extent that you imagine that 
everyone else who disagrees with you must support your enemies.

We are done here.

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