Evidently this was a big enough event to register in places not devoted 
to gaming.  I watched one of the posted videos, and it looked like every 
ship parks and fires until it is either destroyed to bails out of the 
fight.  Since I don't play it appeared as a rather confusing mess.

My only questions at the moment (for those who actually play the game) are:

* From time to time there are flashes that look like balls of pink 
lightning.  Are those ships being blown up, or something else?

* If one ship fires on another, are non-targeted ships along the line of 
fire in danger of being hit?

*It looks line maneuver is not a terribly important part of fleet combat 
in this game.  Is that appraisal accurate?

Regards,
John

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On 1/28/2013 4:34 PM, John VanSickle wrote:
>
> My only questions at the moment (for those who actually play the game) are:

Well, I have never played Eve Online, but seeing as how nobody else has 
replied, I may as well provide some blind speculation.


> * From time to time there are flashes that look like balls of pink
> lightning.  Are those ships being blown up, or something else?

I'd guess those are ships either warping in or out of the area.


> *It looks line maneuver is not a terribly important part of fleet combat
> in this game.  Is that appraisal accurate?

Keep in mind that the ships in Eve Online have vastly different sizes, 
as illustrated by this image:

http://twitz.brainthink.com/assets/images/EVE_Shipchart_Apocrypha_Edition.jpg 
(warning, 5250x10800 pixels)

Most everything I could see the video I looked at were the larger ships, 
which are probably not very maneuverable.  There could well have been a 
swarm of more agile ships darting around in there that were too tiny to 
really see well.  Or maybe in a battle this size small ships are less 
helpful, I dunno.

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On 1/28/2013 4:34 PM, John VanSickle wrote:
> Evidently this was a big enough event to register in places not devoted
> to gaming.  I watched one of the posted videos, and it looked like every
> ship parks and fires until it is either destroyed to bails out of the
> fight.  Since I don't play it appeared as a rather confusing mess.
>
> My only questions at the moment (for those who actually play the game) are:
>
> * From time to time there are flashes that look like balls of pink
> lightning.  Are those ships being blown up, or something else?
>
> * If one ship fires on another, are non-targeted ships along the line of
> fire in danger of being hit?
>
> *It looks line maneuver is not a terribly important part of fleet combat
> in this game.  Is that appraisal accurate?
>
> Regards,
> John

Very large ships need to use a different method of warping in, so, yeah, 
that may be the case with the pink things. I can't remember ever seeing 
them myself.

I don't think the game mechanics takes into account line of fire, but I 
can't be 100% certain. I have never been in big fleet battles, save 
where its been me in one little ship, trying to deal with masses of 
NPCs. However, I think the only thing accounted for is your own motion, 
and how that effects their odds of hitting a target. In fact, I am 
fairly certain of this. I have shot "through" large objects, like 
asteroids, to hit targets on the other side. The game really doesn't 
care what is in the way, just what you are shooting at. I have no idea 
if an obstruction might make you miss more often, though, I doubt it.

No, maneuvering isn't really even possible. You have basically three 
options - orbit something, which makes you a bit harder to hit, but also 
plays havoc with targeting at the extent of your ships range (you may 
keep losing locks), and puts you at risk, in an NPC battle, of catching 
the attention of another group of ships, which you haven't entered 
detection range of yet (which can be really bad, if your ship isn't able 
to fend them off, because even if you manage to warp out, when you come 
back *all* of them will be paying attention). Warping out can also be an 
issue, because some enemies may be carrying warp scramblers, which makes 
it nigh impossible to get away, or they may equipped with stasis webs, 
which low you down, so you are easier to hit. Combine both, and you may 
be blown away before you have a chance to kill which ever ones have the 
warp scrambler on them.

The last method is "kiting". This basically works by having a smaller, 
faster, ship, and heading out from the combat area, as fast as you can 
go. The slower ships, even if they follow, can't a) keep up, or b) 
successfully fire, at the ranges you widen, and you can, in theory, pick 
off the smaller ones, before concentrating on trying to take out some of 
the bigger ones. But, this doesn't do you much good, unless you tank, 
whether it be your shield system, armor, or structure, and the repair 
systems that maintain them, are up to keeping them from stripping you 
bare. Large ships often have missiles, so their range is greater, and 
their guns, if they do get a hit, can rip through you pretty fast. So.. 
you either go for high speed, and avoid being hit, but poor firepower, 
of you go more balanced, add in a lot of stuff to maintain your 
defenses, and hope you don't get mobbed by more than you can handle 
(hence the "don't orbit things stupidly in an NPC mission, where there 
are 4-5 fleets sitting around, waiting to notice you). ;)

So, I would say that maneuvering isn't just not important, its almost 
meaningless. Other than things like, "When do I launch bombs, so they 
hit the opposing fleet.", or, "Do I launch drones now, and risk the 
other guys bombs frying them all, before they even get there?", and 
other "range based" decisions making. Otherwise, it mostly comes down to 
speed, and defenses, and whether or not you can hold out, against an 
enemy, longer than they can. And, for fleet combat, PVP, instead of NPC 
missions, the odds are that things will be rigged to do mass damage, 
fast, with little reserves, which means, the biggest worry for most 
people will be if their capacitors drain down, to the point where repair 
systems, and others, stop running, before they take out their opponents. 
Two apposed fleets, with an even match, and really well rigged systems, 
can pound each other for 20+ minutes, and never get past defenses, right 
up until one of them does something stupid, like activating something 
they shouldn't, or they actually do finally hit the limit an recharging 
their capacitors, and those defensive systems start going offline. There 
have been cases, in the tournaments, where the winner was declared 
"solely" on one team managing to destroy 1 ship more than the other, 
because, other than that one ship, neither one faltered, until the timer 
on the round ended. Needless to say, like car racing, these rounds where 
deemed "boring". lol

Oh, and, graphics have been adjusted a bit, each update, so its hard to 
say if the stuff in any given, unless recent, Eve movie/trailer actually 
looks the same as it now does.

In any case, its almost all about ranges, rigging, and if your skills 
give you an edge. Well, that, and who you kill first, so you have less 
fire coming at you.

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On 1/28/2013 8:53 PM, Kevin Wampler wrote:
> Most everything I could see the video I looked at were the larger ships,
> which are probably not very maneuverable.  There could well have been a
> swarm of more agile ships darting around in there that were too tiny to
> really see well.  Or maybe in a battle this size small ships are less
> helpful, I dunno.
>
Actually, the opposite. Larger weapons systems, like the ships, are much 
slower. A small frigate, especially rigged with some extra speed, may 
literally ***never*** get hit by a large carrier, or the like. Think - 
'so small they are evading our turbo lasers' lol The drawback being that 
you either need a huge mess of them, or you need the bigger ships on 
your side to be hammering the target with heavy fire, so that the weaker 
attacks from the frigates can penetrate the defenses.

Also, there are "drones" and now "fighters". Both of these are bloody 
small, and, in the case of drones, they range from adding extra defense, 
to extra repairs, to energy transfers, etc., as well as attacking, 
depending on the type of drone. So, you are likely to see stuff so small 
that its not even visible to most smaller ships, buzzing around, and 
high speed, in there.

Hmm. There is this:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EVE_Visual_Effects_Cheat_Sheet

But, not seeing "pink" in there. So, not sure what that flash is.

No, wait - its "smart bomb", here is another page with a better list:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Identifying_Visual_Effects

Smart bombs basically detonate at a set range, and take down shields 
**very fast**, while doing some damage, I think, to armor as well. They 
however need to be used at range, and there are not so smart in the 
sense of hitting only the enemy. They will hammer *everyone* in range of 
the detonation, friend of foe. Often, they are used, in mass, to send 
out a wave of explosions, into the path of an approaching fleet, in 
hopes that they catch a) any drones that have been launched (it will 
vaporize them just about instantly), or b) frigates, near the front edge 
of the attackers, which would have less defensive ability, and may not 
be able to repair the damage/recharge shield, before they hit firing 
range on your own fleet. And, those long range, really slow, will never 
hit your frigate when orbiting a huge ship, guns... **will** hit your 
frigate, at 15k+ away from the enemy (while you, probably, won't be able 
to hit jack, in a frigate, until like 5k from them, or closer.) That is 
an awful lot of space, even at high speeds, to pass through, with your 
defenses ripped up by a smart bomb.

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Ok.. I take it back "some" of those might be smart bombs, but.. holy 
shit!! a lot of big ass command/carrier ships jumped into that mess. The 
super-big pink flashes, which generate a big distortion when they 
happen, have got to be jumps. Its the only way such huge ships can move 
from point a to point b, outside their own systems, they have to 
literally carry their own jump gate on them.

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On 1/29/2013 3:29 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Ok.. I take it back "some" of those might be smart bombs, but.. holy
> shit!! a lot of big ass command/carrier ships jumped into that mess. The
> super-big pink flashes, which generate a big distortion when they
> happen, have got to be jumps. Its the only way such huge ships can move
> from point a to point b, outside their own systems, they have to
> literally carry their own jump gate on them.

Or, not.. Damn, is confusing in that battle. I am not seeing new ships 
showing up, so.. its got to be smart bombs, and like bloody close range. 
But, ugh. what the hell do I know. lol

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...ugh.  Changed my mind about wanting to try out EVE again, from your 
description of what can and can't be done in combat.

Looking forward to Elite: Dangerous!  XD

--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.sjcook.com

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On 1/29/2013 9:54 PM, Tim Cook wrote:
> ...ugh.  Changed my mind about wanting to try out EVE again, from your
> description of what can and can't be done in combat.
>
> Looking forward to Elite: Dangerous!  XD
>
> --
> Tim Cook
> http://empyrean.sjcook.com
Well, its sort of understandable, when you consider the reality of what 
they have to keep track of already. The specific video being discussed 
here actually a) hit the time dilation limit of 10%, b) crashed the PS3 
game in BETA, called DUST 514, which is now tied into the Eve universe 
(You can buy mercs on planets, and provide planetary bombardment for the 
troops on the ground, if your ship is rigged with the correct weapons 
for it at this point), and it had as many as 3,200 people involved, at 
one point, though there is some dispute as to how many of them where 
"in" the system. Sector 0, which is where it took place, is usually not 
running on the highest end servers, unless someone has clearly warned 
CCP that such an attack is likely, so the servers where just not in a 
state to handle things effectively. If you had to have those servers 
track details, like object occlusions, during weapons fire, and other 
factors.. the data involved would grow even more, and it would take 
probably half as much as was involved in this mess to grind things to a 
near total halt.

In fact, its purely the fact that they added the time dilation effect, 
at all, that kept the server itself from going down entirely, like they 
used to, not long ago.

That said, I am not sure how much good more accurate maneuvering would 
do anyway. I mean, as much fun as it might be to hide behind an object, 
to avoid fire, and maybe warp out/break locks, or webbing, etc., its 
actually fairly rare that a) you have situations where that would be 
available, or b) large enough fleet battles happen that you could use 
other ships to block/break/etc. someone else's fire, or other effects on 
you.

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