On 07/09/2012 03:46 PM, scott wrote:
>> Sure, there are autonomous machines all around us. I don't think that
>> designing or programming them requires a vast amount of technical
>> knowledge - just extensive testing and experimentation.
>
> That's a very bad way to design products, it's expensive and time
> consuming, and liable to create a product with lots of bugs you don't
> find until they're out in the field. Far better to get people with vast
> technical knowledge to properly design the product in the first place,
> the actual product testing should just be a formality, not a tool to
> find the best design.

I take it you don't subscript to "test-driven software development" as a 
methodology either? ;-)

> But don't worry, you're not alone in underestimating the amount of
> design work that goes into everyday products. Once you've been to a few
> conferences on design and simulation software you realise that nothing
> is just designed by trial and error. For example even the part of your
> dishwasher that contains the salt to soften the water has been carefully
> studied, designed and simulated to minimise salt use, pressure drop and
> material costs. Certainly some person didn't just draw it out and say
> "that'll work, let's test it" and then maybe make a couple of tweaks.
> You wouldn't survive 5 minutes if your company worked like that.

I can imagine a lot of design work goes into a brand new product. But if 
you're making a dishwasher, you're not making a brand new product. 
You're making a product which is nearly identical to several hundred 
thousand existing products, but with one or two trivial differences. 
Most of the research has already been done. You just need to 
double-check that your new design doesn't contain any unexpected flaws.

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>>> Right. And encryption/decryption algoritms sprout from trees?
>>
>> From what I've seen, there are, like, three academics globally who
>> write the vast majority of this stuff. And there are already /way/ more
>> ciphers in existence than anybody actually wants or needs.
>
> Ok. And no one ever needs to implement those algorithms?

Well, that's true. I mean, it's not as if there are already thousands of 
proprietary and open-source libraries that implement both basic 
cryptographic primitives and entire protocols... Oh, wait.

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>> You must be looking at very different "marketing copy" than the stuff
>> I've seen.
>
> That's because you're not looking at marketing copy for products
> marketed to technical people. Look at some ads for computers on Amazon.

Unfortunately Dell figured out that I'm the head of the UK IT 
department. (Hell, I *am* the UK IT department!) Hence, every single 
frigging month they mail me an A4 pamphlet telling me about all the 
fantastic stuff they can sell me.

No technical detail ANYWHERE! >_<

Seriously, you're telling me your stuff will revolutionise by business, 
but you can't actually articulate WHY?

But wait a minute... I'm not there now. Ah! Now all their junkmail will 
be returned to sender. Oh, this makes me very happy. :-D

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On 08/09/2012 5:15 PM, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/7/2012 8:48, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That's not actually how it works.  I know from having worked on DR plans
>> for large and small companies.
>
> Indeed, if it worked that way, you would have just planned to avoid the
> disaster in the first place.
>

O_O

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 08/09/2012 5:25 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 08/09/2012 04:46 PM, Darren New wrote:
>> On 9/6/2012 9:46, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> The thing is, I can't think of any career that makes use of an
>>> ability to
>>> memorise and apply pointless algorithms...
>>
>> The legal system. It's like hacking English.
>
> Not really. Computer systems follow rules. The legal system does not.
> (And neither does English, BTW.)

I take it that you don't want to find a job just find reasons that you 
won't get one.

Please listen to the people who have many more years of experience than 
you do. And have worked in more than one place.
That last statement is just troll-ish.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 17:41:01 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> You must be looking at very different "marketing copy" than the stuff
>>> I've seen.
>>
>> That's because you're not looking at marketing copy for products
>> marketed to technical people. Look at some ads for computers on Amazon.
> 
> Unfortunately Dell figured out that I'm the head of the UK IT
> department. (Hell, I *am* the UK IT department!) Hence, every single
> frigging month they mail me an A4 pamphlet telling me about all the
> fantastic stuff they can sell me.
> 
> No technical detail ANYWHERE! >_<
> 
> Seriously, you're telling me your stuff will revolutionise by business,
> but you can't actually articulate WHY?

Yes, because Dell is representative of companies that actually do 
technical marketing /correctly/.

Jim

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On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 09:15:37 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 9/7/2012 8:48, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That's not actually how it works.  I know from having worked on DR
>> plans for large and small companies.
> 
> Indeed, if it worked that way, you would have just planned to avoid the
> disaster in the first place.

Yup.

Jim

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> Yes, because Dell is representative of companies that actually do
> technical marketing /correctly/.

Alternatively, Dell has figured out that purchasing decisions are made 
by the pointy-haired boss, not the guy who actually knows about this stuff.

Then again, given what a stellar company Dell isn't...

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On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 20:27:47 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>> Yes, because Dell is representative of companies that actually do
>> technical marketing /correctly/.
> 
> Alternatively, Dell has figured out that purchasing decisions are made
> by the pointy-haired boss, not the guy who actually knows about this
> stuff.
> 
> Then again, given what a stellar company Dell isn't...

Maybe you need to have a look at some of the websites that list technical 
requirements for products instead of picking the one company you've 
interacted with that does things the way that you assume everyone does 
them.

Just a thought.

Jim

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>>> Yes, because Dell is representative of companies that actually do
>>> technical marketing /correctly/.
>>
>> Alternatively, Dell has figured out that purchasing decisions are made
>> by the pointy-haired boss, not the guy who actually knows about this
>> stuff.
>>
>> Then again, given what a stellar company Dell isn't...
>
> Maybe you need to have a look at some of the websites that list technical
> requirements for products instead of picking the one company you've
> interacted with that does things the way that you assume everyone does
> them.
>
> Just a thought.

Did I mention that I used Dell for the absolute minimum amount of stuff? 
They certainly aren't be favourite company. :-P

And yes, if you go to just about any website to purchase stuff, they 
give you a list of technical specifications. But that's not "marketing 
copy", is it?

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