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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:47:52 +0200, clipka wrote:
> Am 04.08.2012 23:33, schrieb Jim Henderson:
>> On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:58:34 +0200, clipka wrote:
>>
>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
>>
>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
>
> ... unless they have a job at sales to offer :-)
LOL, point. ;)
Jim
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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:53:36 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
>>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
>
> Heh, yeah - like nobody else claims to have those. :-P
You demonstrate it, though. It's one thing to say you're honest and
trustworthy, quite another to actually be it. (I say that as someone who
values both traits very highly, and who has worked for companies that
value it as well)
>>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
>
> There are employers who DON'T highly v-
Sure. Do you really want to work for someone who doesn't value those
traits?
>> ... unless they have a job at sales to offer :-)
>
> ...oh.
;)
Jim
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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:56:37 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> Finding the right balance between selectivity and volume is tricky.
>
> This.
>
> I'm really not sure I'm hitting this quite right at the moment.
You're not a professional job seeker, so you're not going to hit it quite
right. Neither am I.
I'm too selective. I find myself in the somewhat fortunate position of
being able to be highly selective in who I even apply to much less
interview with.
Jim
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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:04:47 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> ...right... so given that I don't know anybody, I should just give up
>>> now?
>>> Is that what you're saying?
>>
>> You know people here.
>
> Sure. But I don't see any way that's going to help me get a job.
It's a question of knowing people and networking. Not just that, of
course, but those things help.
> Only a
> tiny fraction of the people here live in the same country.
That doesn't matter. How many of the people you interact with work for
companies with offices in the UK? I'm contracting to a company now that
has an office in Bracknell.
> And it's not
> like just because you work for company X, that means you can hire
> somebody.
That's certainly true. The company I'm contracting to actually would
like to hire me, but the CEO has to approve every new hire, so it takes
time to do that. The engineering manager I'm working with said if it were
up to him, he'd have hired me months ago.
He and a few others managed to get me a contract position with them
through the end of the year, so I'm hoping that's a sign that they're
trying to get a full-time permanent position. In the meantime, I'm
working with products that are relevant to being a valuable member of the
team (this company eats their own dog food, so to speak), and they
recognise the value of hiring someone who doesn't have a steep learning
curve to learn the products.
>> You know coworkers that you work with - coworkers who are all in the
>> same boat as you are.
>>
>> That actually gives you a leg up in finding jobs in other companies
>> together. When I was laid off from Novell (and my former coworkers at
>> Albertsons are learning this now as well as they've all just been made
>> redundant), those of us who were laid off looked out for each other.
>>
>> Take some time and talk with some of your soon-to-be former coworkers.
>> Ask them what they are looking for, tell them what you're looking for.
>> If you see something that looks like it might be a good fit for them,
>> tell them - they'll do the same for you.
>>
>> They are in a position to empathize with your situation because you
>> share it. That's something that you all can benefit from.
>
> That's a nice idea. But remember:
>
> - I'm the one and only computer guy in a company full of lab guys.
>
> - I live in a different city.
>
> - I'm at a different life stage. (They're all married with children, for
> example.)
>
> I've never really fitted in at work.
None of those things matter. *None* of them. In fact, not fitting in
but still helping them might just show them what they missed out on.
Help one of them, even in a small way, find a new job - and they'll
realize they underestimated you.
Not that you should spend your time looking for jobs for them - but if
you see something that's a good fit for someone you worked with, let them
know about it.
Especially as they have a family, that you'd have taken the time out of
your own needs and said "hey, Joe would be a good fit for this" - that's
a kind of selflessness that can be useful. Plus it's the right thing to
do.
Jim
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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:03:50 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 04/08/2012 10:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Recruiters generally won't be angry about having their time wasted by
>> unqualified candidates. They get paid to properly identify the
>> qualified and unqualified candidates. So being a bad fit isn't your
>> problem to solve. It's their job to make that determination.
>
> I was on the phone to one recruiter, and she kept asking me "Are you
> serious? Are you messing me around?" And after a few minutes, she told
> me "You're not for real. You're wasting my time." And then she just hung
> up on me. I've never had that before...
There are jerks in all lines of work. Don't take one or two or 10
recruiters being assholes to mean that none of them want to talk to
people to see if they're qualified.
Maybe she was having a bad day. Maybe her dog had just been hit by a
car. Who knows?
Don't give up.
Jim
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Am 05.08.2012 00:07, schrieb Jim Henderson:
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:53:36 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
>>>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
>>>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
...
>>>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
>>
>> There are employers who DON'T highly v-
>
> Sure. Do you really want to work for someone who doesn't value those
> traits?
Word!
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Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
> When you see a job advertised, you don't know who the company is. (If
> you did, you could just phone them up, and then the agency wouldn't get
>
For several years, I haven't applied for such jobs. Just because I like
to know who and what I'm negotiating with. I might have missed a great
job, OTOH they might have missed me. Granted, I would be so harsh if I
was unemployed, but as long as I have a good job, I think I'm allowed to
be picky.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, so there's probably less
applicants for such jobs, therefore easier to be number one.
> Last I heard, /most/ people fail at /most/ interviews. It takes many
> hundred thousand interviews before a hire occurs. Which, given that so
> far I've been to 2 interviews this lifetime, doesn't bode well...
Once again: correct your attitude. If you don't get hired from an
interview, that only means you didn't appear to them as The Best of The
Best of The Best. Sir! There might be many, many reasons and the best
thing is that you don't actually know them, so you can always just think
"Nah, they probably hired the bosses son/cousing/lover/addhere" and
forget that job and move on. If you don't get the job, it doesn't mean
you failed nor you are hopeless - it *just* means they liked someone
more than you. Simple as that, end of story, check your calendar for the
next interview and try harder.
-Aero
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On 8/4/2012 15:04, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> - I'm the one and only computer guy in a company full of lab guys.
All the better. They only have one person to recommend when their new boss
says "hey, were there any computer guys laid off?"
> - I live in a different city.
You may have to ease yourself out of your comfort zone.
> - I'm at a different life stage. (They're all married with children, for
> example.)
That doesn't matter for jobs.
> I've never really fitted in at work.
See #1.
No, really, print up some business cards and pass out a few to everyone at
work with your personal cell phone number on them. Let the folks you work
with, your local friends, etc pass them around.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Oh no! We're out of code juice!"
"Don't panic. There's beans and filters
in the cabinet."
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Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
This:
> Only a
> tiny fraction of the people here live in the same country.
and this:
> - I live in a different city.
are actually partly played out by this:
> - I'm at a different life stage. (They're all married with children, for
> example.)
You don't have family. You don't own a house. That means it's physically
easier for you to move than for them. Put out an EU-wide search for the
websites and check the intresting jobs that you find. See where they
are, and then check the environment out there. What activities/hobbies
etc are available, how are people out there, how does the place look
like. Just think if you could see yourself living there, even for a
small while. If yes, apply. If you don't like living there, just move
back. At least you'll have more experience and at the next interviews
you can say you've worked - or at least checked - at <name the place here>.
-Aero
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clipka wrote:
> Am 05.08.2012 00:07, schrieb Jim Henderson:
> > On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:53:36 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
> >>>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
> ...
> >>>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
> >>
> >> There are employers who DON'T highly v-
> >
> > Sure. Do you really want to work for someone who doesn't value those
> > traits?
>
> Word!
Doesn't that depend on how much they're paying and how desperate you are?
Consider the financial services industry. They appear to value, very, very
highly, those who can think up new and creative ways to defraud people.
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