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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> On 27/01/2012 04:28 AM, Darren New wrote:
>
> > Yeah. I use Eclipse at work, and I'll call BS on that one. I spend way
> > more time taking out the stupid shit Eclipse inserts than I do inserting
> > punctuation myself.
>
> Heh, and I thought Eclipse was supposed to be the best IDE ever. :-P
>
> But yeah, that sounds more or less like every IDE I've ever used... I
> guess that's why I don't use an IDE very often? (Apart from the extreme
> cost. And the lack of support for the formats I want to work with...)
Fighting the IDE is not a good idea. It's only inserting stupid shit because
your stupid shit language demands it. That and "best enterprise practices". If
you waste time and energy removing boilerplate that is the very goal of an IDE,
you'd rather just use a simpler language and straight text editor... of course,
if there's no bossy whip behind you...
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>> Heh, and I thought Eclipse was supposed to be the best IDE ever. :-P
>>
>> But yeah, that sounds more or less like every IDE I've ever used... I
>> guess that's why I don't use an IDE very often? (Apart from the extreme
>> cost. And the lack of support for the formats I want to work with...)
>
> Fighting the IDE is not a good idea. It's only inserting stupid shit because
> your stupid shit language demands it. That and "best enterprise practices". If
> you waste time and energy removing boilerplate that is the very goal of an IDE,
> you'd rather just use a simpler language and straight text editor... of course,
> if there's no bossy whip behind you...
I think you just said "if you need an IDE, your language sucks". ;-)
That said, my development environment tends to consist of having an
editor window open, and a command prompt open, and repeatedly jabbing
the up array until the command I want appears. It would be nice if
somebody could invent the simple idea of being able to define the
commands a want in a small text file, and give me a row of buttons (or
better yet, keyboard shortcuts) to execute those commands...
...oh, wait. Somebody already did. It's called Emacs. >_<
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On 1/27/2012 2:50, nemesis wrote:
> Welcome back! I see you're motivated. :)
Oh, I just have much less time to BS here, I fear. :-)
> Good to know you're programing in Lisp, but you should rather try emacs+slime.
I'm programming in Java. I just felt the need that day to gripe about Eclipse.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 1/27/2012 3:43, Invisible wrote:
> Heh, and I thought Eclipse was supposed to be the best IDE ever. :-P
It sucks pretty hard, actually. It's not even really an IDE as much as it is
an IDE builder framework thing. Of course, people have built a lot of
languages into it and stuff (and Google has plug-ins for the google-specific
languages and such), but for something like Java it seems way more annoying
than something like VS is for C#.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 1/27/2012 4:41, nemesis wrote:
> Fighting the IDE is not a good idea. It's only inserting stupid shit because
> your stupid shit language demands it.
No. I mean I have something like
mystream.write(myobject);
and I want to call mymethod in the middle, to get
mystream.write(mymethod(myobject, 3));
and what I get is
mystream.write(mymethod(object_to_methodize, method_counter)myobject);
because Eclipse figures that rather than giving you drop-down pop-up boxes
like Visual Studio, it'll actually insert the crap into your input stream,
forcing you to delete it instead. Then it'll take over your arrow keys and
enter key, so if you actually do delete the inserted parameter name and try
to cursor to the end of the line, it'll randomly stick you somewhere inside
the expression, depending on how far the parser has gotten.
> you'd rather just use a simpler language and straight text editor...
I'd definitely rather use a language with more power and less boilerplate,
but that's not the problem here. The problem is that Eclipse (until I
figured out how to turn that off, except for the buggy bits, that is) would
inject what it thought you wanted into the text, rather than offer
suggestions. Now, having switched all that crap off, it just randomly
inserts parens after function calls.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 1/27/2012 13:29, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> I think you just said "if you need an IDE, your language sucks". ;-)
No. If you need code generation, your language sucks. IDEs can be helpful
even for good languages.
> ...oh, wait. Somebody already did. It's called Emacs. >_<
You know Tcl. Go for it. That's about 10 lines of code.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 1/27/2012 4:41, nemesis wrote:
> It's only inserting stupid shit because
> your stupid shit language demands it.
Oh, and if it would actually do useful stuff, like when I type
myobject.mymethod()
and mean
myobject.myMethod()
and have it actually correct that, or even offer completions on local
variable names and such, that would be handy. It every once in a while will
do something surprisingly helpful, but otherwise it's pretty darn annoying.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Heh, and I thought Eclipse was supposed to be the best IDE ever. :-P
> >>
> >> But yeah, that sounds more or less like every IDE I've ever used... I
> >> guess that's why I don't use an IDE very often? (Apart from the extreme
> >> cost. And the lack of support for the formats I want to work with...)
> >
> > Fighting the IDE is not a good idea. It's only inserting stupid shit because
> > your stupid shit language demands it. That and "best enterprise practices". If
> > you waste time and energy removing boilerplate that is the very goal of an IDE,
> > you'd rather just use a simpler language and straight text editor... of course,
> > if there's no bossy whip behind you...
>
> I think you just said "if you need an IDE, your language sucks". ;-)
>
> That said, my development environment tends to consist of having an
> editor window open, and a command prompt open, and repeatedly jabbing
> the up array until the command I want appears. It would be nice if
> somebody could invent the simple idea of being able to define the
> commands a want in a small text file, and give me a row of buttons (or
> better yet, keyboard shortcuts) to execute those commands...
>
> ...oh, wait. Somebody already did. It's called Emacs. >_<
Btw, if you use bash, it used the some of the same useful keyboard shortcuts as
emacs, including the always handy "reverse find", so that rather than typing up
array like mad to find an often used command, you may just type crtl+r+"some
word in the command". Notice it's interactive, so that as you are typing the
words, it goes displaying the closest matches. Type ctrl+r again and again if
you want to see further entries.
How I learned that? I RTFM'd.
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>> ...oh, wait. Somebody already did. It's called Emacs. >_<
>
> You know Tcl. Go for it. That's about 10 lines of code.
10 lines that will take you at least a month to figure out. :-P
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>> That said, my development environment tends to consist of having an
>> editor window open, and a command prompt open, and repeatedly jabbing
>> the up array until the command I want appears.
>
> Btw, if you use bash,
Nope. CMD.EXE.
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