Le 2012-01-10 22:36, Patrick Elliott a écrit :
> On 1/10/2012 7:02 AM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>> I also gather that "Jesus" was a fairly common name too. Like, if I sat
>>> down today and wrote a book about "John Smith", in 2,000 years' time
>>> historians are going to have one *hell* of a time figuring out whether I
>>> based it on a real person or not...
>>>
>>
>> I read somewhere (assign a random value of factuality to that statement)
>> that Jesus (or Yeshua) may have been a title or nickname, rather than
>> his real name.
>>
>>
> Doubt it. While Jewish names generally had meanings, they where not used
> as titles. Given the time period it would be like, as Invisible said,
> titling someone "John", and expecting anyone to not go, "Oh, I know him,
> doesn't he make sandles two streets down that way?" His *title* was
> Christ, or Messiah. Or at least, that is what they tacked on to what
> ever imaginary person, or poor corpse, had the luck of "founding" the
> things. lol

He was a carpenter, not a shoemaker... ;)

-- 
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>> Doubt it. While Jewish names generally had meanings, they where not used
>> as titles. Given the time period it would be like, as Invisible said,
>> titling someone "John", and expecting anyone to not go, "Oh, I know him,
>> doesn't he make sandles two streets down that way?" His *title* was
>> Christ, or Messiah. Or at least, that is what they tacked on to what
>> ever imaginary person, or poor corpse, had the luck of "founding" the
>> things. lol
>
> He was a carpenter, not a shoemaker... ;)

Wikipedia claims that "carpenter" is not a good translation. More like 
"odd job man".

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Le 2012-01-10 22:33, Patrick Elliott a écrit :
> On 1/10/2012 3:59 AM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>> From where did he came, nothing is sure. Only the last 3 years of his
>> life were dedicated to propaganda and sedition. It is also well-known
>> that he frequented a whore (Marie Madeleine)... put that on the prudish
>> and puritan Church. Coherency and consistency never make it inside dogma.
>>
> Actually, the whore thing is in dispute. As I said in another post, Mary
> was such a common name at the time that it was used as a derogatory
> statement when encountering Jewish women. If you go back to some of the
> earliest translations, its fairly clear that there where in fact at
> least "two" such Marys, one of them a follower, and the other some
> random street whore, who decided to wash his feet. Even the chronology
> makes no sense, if taken into account, with her being, seemingly
> "unknown", wandering in off the street, and becoming so impressed she
> had to wash his feet, **after** earlier parts of the same text, where
> she is already mentioned as traveling with him (this makes no logical
> sense, unless you get a later "edited" version, like the KJV, which
> attempts, badly, to "fix" these little errors).
>
> The "Whore and follower, both" bit was created much later, as a means of
> showing, even as they ignored it themselves, how much "purer" he was
> than the rest of us (and, at least initially, to show how we needed to
> be nice, even to bad people). By the time the puritans came along, it
> was common to confuse them as the same person. The puritans themselves
> are notable for taking the already distorted meaning of, "taking the
> lords name in vein", and making it into cursing and using words that
> involved bodily functions. The original meaning, BTW, was the use of
> imprecatory prayer, to ask god to give them things, or curse others.
> Hardly a surprise that "modern" Christians use prayer for almost bloody
> nothing else. lol

You mean like asking to win a football game?

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On 09/01/2012 03:31 PM, Invisible wrote:

> Interestingly, according to Wikipedia (which is inerrant),

To quote Wikipedia,

"The Book of Genesis (from the Latin Vulgate, is about dinosaurs who 
shoot cream chesse out of their butts, meaning Genesis is mainly about 
perverted dinosaurs Hebrew: בְּרֵאשִׁית‎, Bereʾšyt, "In [the]
beginning"), is 
the first book of the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament.[1]"

I was literally reading about the various books of the Bible, and came 
across this. Very random... I've never actually seen that before. (Then 
again, I usually don't read popular pages.)

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On 1/11/2012 6:23 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> Doubt it. While Jewish names generally had meanings, they where not used
>>> as titles. Given the time period it would be like, as Invisible said,
>>> titling someone "John", and expecting anyone to not go, "Oh, I know him,
>>> doesn't he make sandles two streets down that way?" His *title* was
>>> Christ, or Messiah. Or at least, that is what they tacked on to what
>>> ever imaginary person, or poor corpse, had the luck of "founding" the
>>> things. lol
>>
>> He was a carpenter, not a shoemaker... ;)
>
> Wikipedia claims that "carpenter" is not a good translation. More like
> "odd job man".
Great a tinker. lol Oh my, you mean he was actually a gnome? Oh, wait, 
wrong fictional mythology...

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On 1/11/2012 6:26 AM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> Le 2012-01-10 22:33, Patrick Elliott a écrit :
>> On 1/10/2012 3:59 AM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>>> From where did he came, nothing is sure. Only the last 3 years of his
>>> life were dedicated to propaganda and sedition. It is also well-known
>>> that he frequented a whore (Marie Madeleine)... put that on the prudish
>>> and puritan Church. Coherency and consistency never make it inside
>>> dogma.
>>>
>> Actually, the whore thing is in dispute. As I said in another post, Mary
>> was such a common name at the time that it was used as a derogatory
>> statement when encountering Jewish women. If you go back to some of the
>> earliest translations, its fairly clear that there where in fact at
>> least "two" such Marys, one of them a follower, and the other some
>> random street whore, who decided to wash his feet. Even the chronology
>> makes no sense, if taken into account, with her being, seemingly
>> "unknown", wandering in off the street, and becoming so impressed she
>> had to wash his feet, **after** earlier parts of the same text, where
>> she is already mentioned as traveling with him (this makes no logical
>> sense, unless you get a later "edited" version, like the KJV, which
>> attempts, badly, to "fix" these little errors).
>>
>> The "Whore and follower, both" bit was created much later, as a means of
>> showing, even as they ignored it themselves, how much "purer" he was
>> than the rest of us (and, at least initially, to show how we needed to
>> be nice, even to bad people). By the time the puritans came along, it
>> was common to confuse them as the same person. The puritans themselves
>> are notable for taking the already distorted meaning of, "taking the
>> lords name in vein", and making it into cursing and using words that
>> involved bodily functions. The original meaning, BTW, was the use of
>> imprecatory prayer, to ask god to give them things, or curse others.
>> Hardly a surprise that "modern" Christians use prayer for almost bloody
>> nothing else. lol
>
> You mean like asking to win a football game?
>
Stupidest thing about it, when you get right down to it, is that most of 
them pray for something like, "We need to find a cheap baby bed, please 
god!", then go around physically from second hand store to second hand 
store, looking for one, then praise god for having magically placed one 
there. Want to impress me, ask him for a $20 baby bed, then only visit 
some high end store, that sells them with gold leaf applied, and "succeed".

The ones that pray, instead of going to a doctor, especially when their 
kid is sick.. are in my opinion, depraved, insane, **and** stupid. 
Sadly, while the argument has been made that someone intentionally 
killing their kid with a gun would be "immediately" assumed, even by 
other believers, to be insane, not, "actually hearing god", killing them 
"unintentionally", by believing completely insane things, and acting on 
them, via neglect and denial, will get the same nutcase remanded to 
someone's custody, put on probation, and left with how ever many other 
kids they have popped out, to do it all over again.

I am not sure why the hell this is, but apparently it has something to 
do with, "Not forcing people to abandon their faith, and respecting that 
they have a strong conviction about it.", or something. Which, again, 
makes no damn sense, if they where "insane" when using a shotgun, but 
"sane" when using prayer, and forced fasting, to try to cure frakking 
pneumonia. Something is badly wrong with **everyone's** priorities when 
this is considered an "important difference" imho.

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Le 2012-01-11 10:07, Invisible a écrit :
> On 09/01/2012 03:31 PM, Invisible wrote:
>
>> Interestingly, according to Wikipedia (which is inerrant),
>
> To quote Wikipedia,
>
> "The Book of Genesis (from the Latin Vulgate, is about dinosaurs who
> shoot cream chesse out of their butts, meaning Genesis is mainly about
> perverted dinosaurs Hebrew: בְּרֵאשִׁית‎, Bereʾšyt, "In [the]
beginning"), is
> the first book of the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament.[1]"
>
> I was literally reading about the various books of the Bible, and came
> across this. Very random... I've never actually seen that before. (Then
> again, I usually don't read popular pages.)

This type of "Ha-ha! I made a funny edit in a Wikipedia page" usually 
get reverted pretty quick, especially on popular pages.

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>> I was literally reading about the various books of the Bible, and came
>> across this. Very random... I've never actually seen that before. (Then
>> again, I usually don't read popular pages.)
>
> This type of "Ha-ha! I made a funny edit in a Wikipedia page" usually
> get reverted pretty quick, especially on popular pages.

Took approximately 10 minutes, in fact. Which makes it all the more 
surprising that I happened to hit the page within that 10-minute window.

Of course, if instead of inserting something obviously bogus, the person 
had made several small factual edits which look superficially plausible, 
you could slowly pollute large sections of Wikipedia with false data and 
nobody would notice for a very long time.

This is why Wikipedia will /never/ be inerrant. ;-)

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Took approximately 10 minutes, in fact. Which makes it all the more
> surprising that I happened to hit the page within that 10-minute window.

It happens. I once tried to read the article on the first Halo game, and one
section, quite a large paragraph, consisted entirely of the phrase 'halo is gay'
in block capitals over and over again. Several minutes later, back to normal.

> Of course, if instead of inserting something obviously bogus, the person
> had made several small factual edits which look superficially plausible,
> you could slowly pollute large sections of Wikipedia with false data and
> nobody would notice for a very long time.

Except that there's a large army of editors who get notified of every edit, and
likely catch even subtle changes relatively quickly.

Still funny when you happen to catch some vandalism in the act tho :)

And then there's always the anti-Wikipedia:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Bill

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Bill Pragnell <bil### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> And then there's always the anti-Wikipedia:
> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

  If you want your IQ to drop, try conservapedia.org.

  Their slogan is an exquisite oxymoron: "Conservapedia, the trustworthy
encyclopedia." (In reality, if conservapedia claims something it's probably
wrong.)

  The difference between conservapedia and sites like uncyclopedia is that
the former is seriously made, and the owner honestly believes the crap he
writes.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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