Warp wrote:
> Saul Luizaga<sau### [at] netscapenet>  wrote:
>> In the History Channel 'UFO Files' at the end of one of the episodes a
>> young man levitates a triangle induced with 50,000 volts, he said at the
>> moment science can't explain it yet. On that series, a few people
>> researched how to levitate wood chair and other non-magnetic stuff in in
>> the passed century (1960 or later I think, I don't recall well), they
>> were supposedly hired by USA military, in the episodes they show
>> original footage made by the levitators.
>
>    I wouldn't put too much trust in a TV show named like that.
>
>    TV shows are made for entertainment. They lie if they have to. Everybody
> knows that, yet people still fall for it.
>
>    Now, if you give me actual references to peer-reviewed publications,
> that's a different story. (And I'm not talking about the triangle levitating
> thanks to the 50 kilovolts.)

Well I have tried to research how true are some the things showed and 
some are lies and others are true, but why would military will hide the 
research of people that levitated wood? that's anti-gravity and of 
course powerful technology if you can make a fighter with it which is 
probably what some paranoid military people thought when they took that 
away as soon it was known.

  You'll never get proof from things like this, is always a little shady 
but they have reasonable believable capability if you dig enough. 
Another case was the Roswell UFO fragment that was recorded in a 
cassette long ago in a unique interview in the '90s when the secretary 
that was shown the material took it in his hands and when she deformed 
it, it returned to its original shape and was told it was a space craft 
piece, she had a agreement to never talk about it, she said something 
like: "What are they gonna do to me, through me in jail or kill me? I 
think I can handle either one", she was at the time very old 70+ years, 
I think that was real adn I'm absolutely sure the 'Area 51' is 
developing secret military devices and hiding extraterrestrial UFO info 
all evidence points to that, just like the Big Bang Theory. 'Area 51' 
was admitted to exist by USA Gov. by a trail that it was won by skillful 
lawyer that defensed really sick, even terminal people that worked in a 
"non-existent Military facility", most of those people must have died by 
now and THAT is not fiction at all, they worked like 20-30+ years ago, 
there and got poisoned by radioactive and toxic waste they were in 
charge of disposal and the Gov. fired some of them for being sick, and 
didn't want to recognize they did it, nice huh? another powerful reason 
to not believe Governments of any Country, you have to be watchful always.


Is a interesting series that recollects from respected Ufologists and 
testimonials from people that had first contact, The Pacific Triangle, 
UFO in other Countries, like England ("England Roswell"), Brazil 
military documented people killed by UFOs, UFO today scientific analysis 
of a possible UFO craft with Michio Kaku helping describing some 
phenomena and other scientist, etc, I suggest you buy it or torrent it.

If you're only paying attention to things that you can prove 
scientifically or is scientifically accepted you're missing a great deal 
that science can't explain and is part of nature: Extraterrestrial life, 
alien spacecrafts & ghosts, etc. You don't believe them? fine, but there 
are indications of it all over the world and people doing scams don't 
mean is all false. Take the crop circles, the simpler ones are true UFO 
making because of the impossible way they're made of; impossible as in 
no human could bend & leave a little radiation that way; proof no, 
reasonable doubt, oh yes.

>> I wonder why we don't have levitating commercial "planes", I think they
>> could be safer since you don't need to fly at high altitudes since it's
>> soundless, I guess carbohydrate fuel wins again, no electric cars neither.
>
>    There's no known physics to make a plane levitate.
>
>    A superconductor levitates over a magnet because of the Meissner effect.
> It requires a very specific set of circumstances which are quite hard, if
> not impossible, to replicate for an airplane in normal outdoords conditions.
> (Namely, the plane would have to be superconductive and floating above a
> gigantic superpowerful magnet.)

Anti-gravity is something that I've seen all over the Internet some 
people have made it and that most if not all cases have been hidden by 
Gov. or Military specially in USA, the concept and experiments are not 
new, at least 50 years at the seems, but of course everyone that makes 
"UFO science" is discouraged with a "bullets are so cheap" or you dying 
of a mysterious or "natural" "heart attack" as probably happened to the 
lead actor of the series ____ that according to people was the closest 
to the truth someone ever made it a TV series.

This anti-gravity maybe could be fused or have a base on this magnetic 
locking or other super-conductivity experiments/theories, but as I wrote 
before, some technologies would kill current technologies eventually and 
trillions would be lost in current investments, maybe massive layoffs, 
huge economic quakes and desperation to get into the new developed tech 
could lead to a hard to handle chaotic society worldwide, if done the 
wrong way in this monetary system, which is something politician will 
do, part due to their natural incompetence of most of them and part 
because they will seen as the "saviors" of society, being the best a 
politicians would want for themselves, which in turn is power and power 
is money, this being their goal.

I honestly think that until we find a way to share resources in a better 
way, giving to the poor but not spoiling them and taking from the rich 
in a proportionate, efficient and fair for all ways, economic interests, 
hence money, is reason for doing or not things in this world. But 
monetary systems are long term self destructive systems as I have 
learned and will progress i the line of economic ways until that system 
collapses and maybe we can implement another that allows better 
implementation of a science-based economy/society I think then will make 
true progress in technology.

  You made a post a few months ago about this 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY and I did already see the 
video by the time I saw your post but the server won't let reply because 
it said it was too old, nobody replied it, yes nobody wants to see the 
drama of some realities in life. This video and other about Resource 
Based Economy tell how the economic system work and how it doesn't, so I 
know a little this is the root of many problems today.

This method alone would be of course stupid to try to make it work as a 
car-size vehicle to transport anything but it look promising, I hope 
someday scientists can make a practical use of it and Gov./Mil wont take 
it away.

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Yes that's the one. I forgot to tell that the guy was really young and 
that he told that it was believed that the electric field caused ionized 
the air around and made it lighter so it was pushed down generating 
lift. I can't believe there is no way till now to by any scientist to 
make a use of this and make a damn car, maybe it would generate more 
problems that solutions, people bumping on each other's cars... Imagine 
a 8 line highway car accident!

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On 10/19/2011 18:16, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Anti-gravity is something that I've seen all over the Internet some people
> have made it and that most if not all cases have been hidden by Gov. or
> Military specially in USA,

Given that an explanation for how and why gravity does what it does is going 
on at the LHC, I would think anyone with an actual working anti-gravity 
device would be way, way too famous to be covered up.

> This anti-gravity maybe could be fused or have a base on this magnetic
> locking or other super-conductivity experiments/theories,

Uh, no. There's no gravity involved in what you saw here, any more than it's 
ghosts holding the fridge magnet to the fridge.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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Yes I know is only magnetic force passing through a superconductor and 
getting stuck on its way through but since I don't know much about 
Quantum Physics I thought some how the 2 forces could somehow me mixed 
or interact, to achieve lift at quantum level or something like that. I 
wonder why I don't read scientists trying to make practical use of 
anti-gravity. I was told that they have found a way to tele+transport a 
monochrome laser light 1 meter using Quantum Physics, where are those 
experiments, we could use that.

Post a reply to this message

Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Well I have tried to research how true are some the things showed and 
> some are lies and others are true, but why would military will hide the 
> research of people that levitated wood?

  Why are you assuming that the "military" is hiding that? Just because
someone claims that they are hiding it doesn't make it true.

  Ufologists and conspiracy theorists are very keen to argue from ignorance,
especially if the government or the mitilary is involved. For example,
sometimes the government will publish some secred documents with large
pieces of text blacked out. The ufologists and conspiracy theorists will
immediately jump to the argument from ignorance: What are they hiding?
Is it UFOs? A world domination conspiracy?

  Yet the explanation is probably much more mundane. You see, governments
and the military do perform clandestine spying and other similar operations
from time to time, and publishing the details of these operations may
either compromise existing operations or cause political turmoil. They
may use spy planes (which sometimes can get confused with UFOs) or agents
in the field. However, there isn't necessarily anything in this related to
hiding UFO or other similar technology. It's more probably Tom Clancy type
stuff than UFO type stuff.

> I think that was real adn I'm absolutely sure the 'Area 51' is 
> developing secret military devices

  It's not a secret that "Area 51" is a development and testing site for
new military technology, most often aircraft. Many of the most famous
military aircraft have been tested there.

> and hiding extraterrestrial UFO info 
> all evidence points to that

  Argument from ignorance.

> Is a interesting series that recollects from respected Ufologists and 
> testimonials from people that had first contact, The Pacific Triangle, 
> UFO in other Countries, like England ("England Roswell"), Brazil 
> military documented people killed by UFOs, UFO today scientific analysis 
> of a possible UFO craft with Michio Kaku helping describing some 
> phenomena and other scientist, etc, I suggest you buy it or torrent it.

  I have seen quite some videos and documentaries about ufology, including
videos that claim to be the most convincing evidence of UFOs. They weren't
very convincing.

  Eyewitness testimony is completely unreliable. People interpret what
they see in all kind of wrong ways because they don't know what they are
seeing. Mouth-to-mouth word spreads these stories, and people invent new
details to them, even without realizing (that's because people do not
repeat the words they hear; instead they repeat the mental image they
got when they were told the story). Some people repeat as personal
experience something that they heard from a good friend (this is very
well documented in multitude of cases, including the infamous Roswell
"UFO" case). Some people lie.

  Eyewitness testimony can be discarded as evidence outrigh. At most it
can be used as a starting point for further investigation, but not as
evidence of any kind. Believing in something because of eyewitness
testimony is simply foolishness. I wouldn't believe even my best and
most trusted friend if he claimed to have seen something extraordinary.
(With that I don't mean he's lying. I mean that unless I get more concrete
evidence, the veracity of the claim is an open question. It's most probable
that he was simply mistaken.)

  Ufologists can compile tons and tons of "evidence", several-hours-long
"documentaries", entire libraries of books, but it all amounts to the
exact same thing as conspiracy theories. With enough cherry-picking and
selective interpretation (and more often than not complete lack of any
actual investigation) you can make anything sound plausible.

> If you're only paying attention to things that you can prove 
> scientifically or is scientifically accepted you're missing a great deal 
> that science can't explain and is part of nature: Extraterrestrial life, 
> alien spacecrafts & ghosts, etc.

  Again, that's just an argument from ignorance. "Science can't explain
this, hence it must be an UFO/ghost/whatever." No, it doesn't. Don't argue
from ignorance. If science cannot explain it (and in most cases it actually
can; it's just that believers dismiss the explanation), then it's just
something unexplained. "It's an UFO" is not an explanation.

  Why should I believe in something there's no actual evidence for? I would
most probably be believing in falsities, and what good would that do to me?

> You don't believe them? fine, but there 
> are indications of it all over the world and people doing scams don't 
> mean is all false.

  Please don't argue from ignorance. Lack of explanation does not imply
anything. (And that's assuming there's no explanation. There actually is
a very simple explanation far more often than ufologists want to believe.)

> Take the crop circles, the simpler ones are true UFO 
> making because of the impossible way they're made of; impossible as in 
> no human could bend & leave a little radiation that way; proof no, 
> reasonable doubt, oh yes.

  Actually all crop circles are quite easy for humans to make, and this
has been demonstrated countless times.

  And anyways, even if some crop circles cannot been explained, what does
that prove? Nothing. It's unexplained. Deducing an explanation from the
unexplained is just an argument from ignorance.

> Anti-gravity is something that I've seen all over the Internet some 
> people have made it and that most if not all cases have been hidden by 
> Gov. or Military specially in USA

  That sentence is contradictory. How can they be "all over the internet"
if they have been hidden?

  If someone invented an antigravity device, it would probably be an
automatic Nobel prize for him.

>, the concept and experiments are not 
> new, at least 50 years at the seems, but of course everyone that makes 
> "UFO science" is discouraged with a "bullets are so cheap" or you dying 
> of a mysterious or "natural" "heart attack" as probably happened to the 
> lead actor of the series ____ that according to people was the closest 
> to the truth someone ever made it a TV series.

  Ok, this is going so far into the tinfoil-hat territory that I'm going
to stop.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> If the levitating triangle was this: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionocraft then the guy was delusional or 
> flat out lying when he said that science can't explain it.  The upshot 
> is that the voltage induces a slight air current through the triangle, 
> and since the triangle is very lightweight this is sufficient to lift 
> it. I believe it's not currently practical for "real-life" use because 
> the voltage source would weigh significantly more than the lift it 
> generates (which is why the demos you see are powered by an external 
> voltage source).

  Btw, one common feature to all (actual) physical phenomena that seem
to levitate objects is that they actually don't. Ok, it depends on how
you define "levitation", but usually it means something that somehow
nullifies gravity. (If "levitation" meant simply "does not touch the
ground for a long period of time", then planes, helicopters and hot
air balloons all "levitate" without problems.)

  Gravity is not being affected in any way in any of these phenomena.
The "levitating" object is still being pulled down by gravity, and hence
it's applying a force to the ground. The only difference between these
phenomena and just an object that is in direct contact with the ground is
that there's an invisible force mediating between the object and the ground
(usually a magnetic field or a flow of air).

  I don't really understand why some people get so excited about these
"levitation" experiments. They are no different from airplanes and
helicopters. All of them hover in the air without toucing the ground.
The mechanism is just a bit different depending on the phenomenon.

  What makes the "levitation" of a superconductor over a magnet (or the
other way around) so cool is that it's not something you experience in
everyday life (for obvious reasons). You could try to levitate a magnet
over another magnet, but it will just quickly fall off. The Meissner
effect makes the superconductor stay in place, which is unintuitive and
not common-day experience.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 10/19/2011 23:17, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> I thought some how the 2 forces could somehow me mixed or interact,

Technically, gravity is a completely different thing from quantum forces. 
Indeed, the separation of gravity from the other three forces is the current 
biggest confusion and mystery to be solved, and the source of funding for 
the LHC.

> to achieve lift at quantum level or something like that.

"Lift" is not "anti-gravity", any more than Boeing is ant-gravity.

> don't read scientists trying to make practical use of anti-gravity.

Because they don't know how to create anti-gravity, and indeed it's not at 
all obvious that such a thing would even be theoretically possible. Gravity 
is caused by, basically, the existence of real non-euclidean geometry. It's 
not quite obvious how you "anti" that.

> told that they have found a way to tele+transport a monochrome laser light 1
> meter using Quantum Physics, where are those experiments, we could use that.

That's not hard. I have a flashlight that will transport all kinds of colors 
all the way across the room.  Without actually an understanding of what's 
under discussion, reading that sort of stuff just rots your brains.

It's like asking "if my friend can have an email conversation with me over 
the computer, why can't my computer have an email conversation with me?"

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> On 10/19/2011 23:17, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> > I thought some how the 2 forces could somehow me mixed or interact,

> Technically, gravity is a completely different thing from quantum forces. 
> Indeed, the separation of gravity from the other three forces is the current 
> biggest confusion and mystery to be solved, and the source of funding for 
> the LHC.

  In fact, it may well be that gravity isn't a force at all, just a
side-effect of the geometry of spacetime (as postulated by the theory
of GR).

  This would mean that modifying gravity requires modifying the geometry
of spacetime.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>    I don't really understand why some people get so excited about these
> "levitation" experiments.

Answer >---|
            |
            v
>    What makes the "levitation" of a superconductor over a magnet (or the
> other way around) so cool is that it's not something you experience in
> everyday life (for obvious reasons).

Post a reply to this message

On 10/19/2011 6:16 PM, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> Saul Luizaga<sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>>> In the History Channel 'UFO Files' at the end of one of the episodes a
>>> young man levitates a triangle induced with 50,000 volts, he said at the
>>> moment science can't explain it yet. On that series, a few people
>>> researched how to levitate wood chair and other non-magnetic stuff in in
>>> the passed century (1960 or later I think, I don't recall well), they
>>> were supposedly hired by USA military, in the episodes they show
>>> original footage made by the levitators.
>>
>> I wouldn't put too much trust in a TV show named like that.
>>
>> TV shows are made for entertainment. They lie if they have to. Everybody
>> knows that, yet people still fall for it.
>>
>> Now, if you give me actual references to peer-reviewed publications,
>> that's a different story. (And I'm not talking about the triangle
>> levitating
>> thanks to the 50 kilovolts.)
>
> Well I have tried to research how true are some the things showed and
> some are lies and others are true, but why would military will hide the
> research of people that levitated wood? that's anti-gravity and of
> course powerful technology if you can make a fighter with it which is
> probably what some paranoid military people thought when they took that
> away as soon it was known.
>
> You'll never get proof from things like this, is always a little shady
> but they have reasonable believable capability if you dig enough.
> Another case was the Roswell UFO fragment that was recorded in a
> cassette long ago in a unique interview in the '90s when the secretary
> that was shown the material took it in his hands and when she deformed
> it, it returned to its original shape and was told it was a space craft
> piece, she had a agreement to never talk about it, she said something
> like: "What are they gonna do to me, through me in jail or kill me? I
> think I can handle either one", she was at the time very old 70+ years,
> I think that was real adn I'm absolutely sure the 'Area 51' is
> developing secret military devices and hiding extraterrestrial UFO info
> all evidence points to that, just like the Big Bang Theory. 'Area 51'
> was admitted to exist by USA Gov. by a trail that it was won by skillful
> lawyer that defensed really sick, even terminal people that worked in a
> "non-existent Military facility", most of those people must have died by
> now and THAT is not fiction at all, they worked like 20-30+ years ago,
> there and got poisoned by radioactive and toxic waste they were in
> charge of disposal and the Gov. fired some of them for being sick, and
> didn't want to recognize they did it, nice huh? another powerful reason
> to not believe Governments of any Country, you have to be watchful always.
>
>
Think my eyes just crossed... Seriously though, much like various other 
things of the sort, there is a lot "made up" at the time, which later 
you run into problems, like it being pretty much impossible to, say, 
completely erase *any* evidence of certain people involved, yet there 
isn't even evidence that certain people that supposedly where there ever 
existed **at all**. Those things have been rehashed a lot, and nothing 
new has come out of them, other than further questions about if any of 
it happened, could have, or what statements really where made, by who, 
etc. I find it amazing that the most likely result of Roswell, that some 
goofball that believed in UFOs may have misidentified something man 
made, initially, because he *personally* had no direct knowledge of the 
project it came from, during a time of massive military experiment and 
research, is just not possible, but that a real UFO crashed, and was 
covered up by a government that can't seem to bloody hide shit 
otherwise, including the location of their secret, "it doesn't exist", 
military bases, successfully prevented any but a few random people, from 
ever telling the truth about a crashed alien space craft... What? And, 
most of the stuff since is even more insane, complete with some of the 
"top" UFO people, that claim its all true, also claiming that their 
entire existence was erased, complete with university records, job 
records, even place of birth, and replaced with completely different 
information, including that the closest they ever got to a base was as a 
janitor.

Guess who is the #1 top nut talking about invisibility, levitation, etc. 
Yep, the janitor...

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